New Expansion: EverQuest: Rain of Fear

[StaticX27]

harder content make u DICK BIGGER AND your VAGINA WETTER, and make u a better EQ player.../oh well

This. I remember going into Ones and being genuinely scared of single pulls, then they neutered the zone cuz everyone said it was too hard.... Motor all the fun out of it for me honestly. Seriously, if you can't handle the end game zones, don't play there. Oh sorry, you're a paying customer, so ou should be able to experience th same content putting in half the time into your character as I did.m my apologies!

/rant ofd

 

[Fry]

Would Love To See For Newbies Getting Into Game:

- Removal of having to grind skill points for casting/offense/defense skills. When you level, your skills go up, no sitting around with skillcast macro or dueling mage pets to get your casting, offense or defense skills up to par. This is years overdue.

- Change origin AA to gate to PoK, not gate to starting city. Humping it to PoK from Crescent Reach because I was a dumbass and started in Crescent Reach isn't fun. They did a great job making origin replace the /gate command, all they need to do now is make it go someplace useful and not waste me an extra 15 minutes of my time making it to PoK for not buying gate potions.

- Easier way to get all your spells/disciplines for your level. Let me hail my guildmaster npc, give him some pp, and have my spells/disciplines that are vender buyable for my current level and under, auto-scribed to my spell book.

- An easier way to gear up your character for your current level without going out of your way to farm drops. Buying pp, and heading to bazaar every 10 levels isn't fun. Make ALL mobs in non-raid zones that are under level 90, have a chance to drop a usable item for every slot for every class of that level range.

I'll admit all of this is dumbing down the game a bit. Removal of skills for casting/offense/defense and origin change is really a no brainier, they need to happen to make the game more enjoyable to new players. The other spells/discipline buying change and gear buying change are debatable but I believe some sort of better solution than the current ones is needed for them.

 

[StaticX27]

Would Love To See For Newbies Getting Into Game:

- Removal of having to grind skill points for casting/offense/defense skills. When you level, your skills go up, no sitting around with skillcast macro or dueling mage pets to get your casting, offense or defense skills up to par. This is years overdue.

+1

- Change origin AA to gate to PoK, not gate to starting city. Humping it to PoK from Crescent Reach because I was a dumbass and started in Crescent Reach isn't fun. They did a great job making origin replace the /gate command, all they need to do now is make it go someplace useful and not waste me an extra 15 minutes of my time making it to PoK for not buying gate potions.

+1

- Easier way to get all your spells/disciplines for your level. Let me hail my guildmaster npc, give him some pp, and have my spells/disciplines that are vender buyable for my current level and under, auto-scribe to my spell book.

+eleventy one. I think I end up dumping around 50-60k easily on just getting spells, and then a couple hours and carpal tunnel later trying to scribe em in my book.

- An easier way to gear up your character for your current level without going out of your way to farm drops. Buying pp, and heading to bazaar every 10 levels isn't fun. Make ALL mobs in non-raid zones that are under level 90, have a chance to drop a usable item for every slot for every class of that level range.

I heard a pretty interesting possibility for what they meant by "all/all gear and then customizable to each class."

Using the current augmentation model, they could add in a type 50 aug (or whatever) that is class specific. Mob drops 1 loot, 1 aug. You take generic piece of loot, insert the aug and all of the suddent it's tailored to your class. Maybe doing something like this with defiant / elegant armor to make it more class specific? I admit, in practice it would end up looking alot like valiant / blood forged hero forge crap, in that we'll be camping that stuff and praying to god we can find the aug that drops for our class. Remove prestige stuff from t4 loot for example. f2p accounts get generic loot, gold members get customized loot to their class. If they do it right, that could provide for some pretty fun gear crafting.

 

[SiegeTank]

Would Love To See For Newbies Getting Into Game:

- Removal of having to grind skill points for casting/offense/defense skills. When you level, your skills go up, no sitting around with skillcast macro or dueling mage pets to get your casting, offense or defense skills up to par. This is years overdue.

It's been made stupid ez over the years. Any "noob" levelling his toon the ole-fashioned way (and he should be, if he's a noob) will level them properly in the course of XPIng. Yeah, if he uses DS's and gets PLd much he may fall behind on a few. But it's now stupid ez compared to what it used to be and how much more does the game really need dumbing down to entice the Beavises and Buttheads of the world to play?

- Change origin AA to gate to PoK, not gate to starting city. Humping it to PoK from Crescent Reach because I was a dumbass and started in Crescent Reach isn't fun. They did a great job making origin replace the /gate command, all they need to do now is make it go someplace useful and not waste me an extra 15 minutes of my time making it to PoK for not buying gate potions.

This is reasonable. The original idea of origin placed way too much emphasis on a toon's connection to his racial home. Yeah, my first toon, a dorf, lived in Kaladim and Butcherblock for weeks and an origin AA would have been nice when I finally struck out for Unrest and Steamfont so I could avoid those long runs home. Even better they should make it crystal clear that the default setting of the starting city button is set to CR. That is lame. Have 2 buttons: "Start in CR" and "Start in Racial Home" and force the noobie to make an informed decision. Same goes for visiting the tutorial. I hate that they essential force new players to start in the tutorial. This is the "Microsoft mentality", i.e. "Ve Know Vat's Best for You so Start in da Tutorial, Damn You!!"

- Easier way to get all your spells/disciplines for your level. Let me hail my guildmaster npc, give him some pp, and have my spells/disciplines that are vender buyable for my current level and under, auto-scribed to my spell book.

Why? Is it really that tough to buy your spells and scribe them? They already have it so you won't "see" spells you don't need anymore so you can avoid buying dupes. They made it stupid easy by placing all the spell vendors in PoK.

- An easier way to gear up your character for your current level without going out of your way to farm drops. Buying pp, and heading to bazaar every 10 levels isn't fun. Make ALL mobs in non-raid zones that are under level 90, have a chance to drop a usable item for every slot for every class of that level range.

Taking a break every 10 levels and shopping the Bazaar... I always considered that a bit of fun. But I'm OK with improving the breadth and distribution of useable drops. To some extent they already have, btw. I'm always surpsrised with how much useable armor drops in lower level zones when I happen to be PLing or passing thru and get the urge to kill something.

I'll admit all of this is dumbing down the game a bit. Removal of skills for casting/offense/defense and origin change is really a no brainier, they need to happen to make the game more enjoyable to new players. The other spells/discipline buying change and gear buying change are debatable but I believe some sort of better solution than the current ones is needed for them.

They don't NEED to do any of this. The game has already been dumbed down more than a bit. What will hammer the death blow into EQ is to make it into a true WoW clone. Cuz it can't compete head-to-head with WoW and EQ will cut its own throat trying to. Keep what makes EQ special and different, maybe dumb down some of the more frustrating and difficult to understand shit, but retain its specialness. Frankly, what I find could use work are better explanations of the purpose and benefits of certain spells, AAs and abilities. Some of them give you actual numerical values and/or %s for their effects; others are painfully vague. Where in-gaeme can you find info on the differences between "rampage" and "enrage"? Or what exactly "riposte" does? Where's the hot button for rogue SoS? How many mobs can a rain spell hit, exactly? What in hell does it mean when a spell's resist adjustment is +10 Fire?

Yeah, I know the answers. But does a new player and if not, where the hell does he find them? Some of these questions aren't even answered clearly in sources like allakhazam. Look up "riposte" on allak and you get a link to "double riposte" which says:

The first three ranks of this ability will give you an increased chance to execute a double riposte 15, 35, and 50 percent of the time. Additional ranks further increase this effect.

Um, yeah, THAT helps. Considering how many AAs I'd have to spend to buy this ability, maybe a little more explanation would be appropriate?

The game could benefit a LOT from better documentation, without changing ANY of the gameplay and mechanics, IMO. Ever notice how some windows, usually the more complex ones, don't even HAVE a Help button? This is reminiscent of Microsoft and some of its software: "No help available for this time" seems to come up a lot for items that I just happen to want some help on. Just like when Windows suggests going online for a solution to a problem and the solution is always "no solution has been found for this problem."

 

[Trila]

Damn 12 accounts!

I can barely play 6.

 

[Jestercap]

- Change origin AA to gate to PoK, not gate to starting city. Humping it to PoK from Crescent Reach because I was a dumbass and started in Crescent Reach isn't fun. They did a great job making origin replace the /gate command, all they need to do now is make it go someplace useful and not waste me an extra 15 minutes of my time making it to PoK for not buying gate potions.

- Easier way to get all your spells/disciplines for your level. Let me hail my guildmaster npc, give him some pp, and have my spells/disciplines that are vender buyable for my current level and under, auto-scribed to my spell book.

- An easier way to gear up your character for your current level without going out of your way to farm drops. Buying pp, and heading to bazaar every 10 levels isn't fun. Make ALL mobs in non-raid zones that are under level 90, have a chance to drop a usable item for every slot for every class of that level range.

These 3 things have all been implemented on EZ server on EQEmu. And to top it off, you can buy your Epic 1.0 off a vendor where you start for 0 pp.

 

[NightGod]

- An easier way to gear up your character for your current level without going out of your way to farm drops. Buying pp, and heading to bazaar every 10 levels isn't fun. Make ALL mobs in non-raid zones that are under level 90, have a chance to drop a usable item for every slot for every class of that level range.

Taking a break every 10 levels and shopping the Bazaar... I always considered that a bit of fun. But I'm OK with improving the breadth and distribution of useable drops. To some extent they already have, btw. I'm always surpsrised with how much useable armor drops in lower level zones when I happen to be PLing or passing thru and get the urge to kill something.

This has already been basically implemented. Go back and follow the Hero's Journey path-you'll end up with a pretty solid set of gear. I have been working through them for nerd points to make my e-peen glisten a little brighter and have been pleasantly surprised at the quality of the gear that comes out of them. Between the rewards from the HJ and the Defiant gear that drops like candy (and drops at a level that is actually useful to the people hunting there) it's pretty easy to make it to 85-90 with a solid set of group gear and then start working on HoT/VoA armor.

 

[Zeta1]

to make my e-peen glisten a little brighter

wat

 

[demoante]

Seems to me about half this shit, was stuff promised to us, as the next big patch, after VoA was released, now they are packing it into the expansion to make it worth buying? Lame.

 

[aspire2008]

Seems to me about half this shit, was stuff promised to us, as the next big patch, after VoA was released, now they are packing it into the expansion to make it worth buying? Lame.

They promised alot of this stuff and tradeskill cap increase, few more raids (which they cut down on for Voa), 1-2 more zones (which never went in with VoA) at fan faire last year for the VoA expansion, alot of it didn't even happen. Until it shows up after beta, not going to hold my breath over alot of the stuff they keep promising.

 

[Remianen]

It's been made stupid ez over the years. Any "noob" levelling his toon the ole-fashioned way (and he should be, if he's a noob) will level them properly in the course of XPIng. Yeah, if he uses DS's and gets PLd much he may fall behind on a few. But it's now stupid ez compared to what it used to be and how much more does the game really need dumbing down to entice the Beavises and Buttheads of the world to play?

No offense SiegeTank but EQ has been made 'stupid ez' at all levels over the years. Yes, even raids. I'd go so far as to say at least half the guilds who finished VoA and HoT would not have if they had to actually compete for those raid spawns. Instancing made raiding in EQ 'stupid ez' since you could drag ass and take your time getting to the raid site and still have something to kill. So what's wrong with making the game easier at the levels that no one cares about? What about classes that CAN'T practice certain skills without excessive amounts of tedium because they don't get spells that work those skills until later in their lives? Yes, as a ranger, I had to do a lot of casting of dance of the fireflies so my dot wouldn't continually fizzle. Same with my wizard and halo of light when familiars were first introduced. I'm not going to give half a damn if players now get their skills maxed up to a certain level (51 or 60 is where I'd stop).

Why? Is it really that tough to buy your spells and scribe them? They already have it so you won't "see" spells you don't need anymore so you can avoid buying dupes. They made it stupid easy by placing all the spell vendors in PoK.

Again, why is this even a concern? True, I wouldn't go high with the 'free spells from your GM' thing (maybe up to 70, no ancients, since 71+ is where the spells gain ranks) but considering the fact that on many (if not 'most') servers, real new players are about as rare as finding diamond dust in your brown snake, something has to be done to make the game more appealing to those who otherwise would make good additions to the playerbase.

They don't NEED to do any of this. The game has already been dumbed down more than a bit. What will hammer the death blow into EQ is to make it into a true WoW clone. Cuz it can't compete head-to-head with WoW and EQ will cut its own throat trying to. Keep what makes EQ special and different, maybe dumb down some of the more frustrating and difficult to understand shit, but retain its specialness. Frankly, what I find could use work are better explanations of the purpose and benefits of certain spells, AAs and abilities. Some of them give you actual numerical values and/or %s for their effects; others are painfully vague. Where in-gaeme can you find info on the differences between "rampage" and "enrage"? Or what exactly "riposte" does? Where's the hot button for rogue SoS? How many mobs can a rain spell hit, exactly? What in hell does it mean when a spell's resist adjustment is +10 Fire?

Honestly, if you think any of these suggestions would even come close to making this game a clone of WoW, you haven't played WoW. EQ and WoW will never be similar beyond the 'on the surface' stuff (that resulted from WoW copying EQ) because their entire base design ethos differs so widely. Making this game easier for true new players will not affect the majority of the playerbase at all (except maybe when rolling alts. Ooooo, now I don't have to spend 15 minutes in an arena with my mage! Cool, I don't have to park my ass inside my house with a spellcast macro running!). "No one" cares about this game pre-70ish, least of all its devs. Hero's Journey is good, but it doesn't go far enough. Sure, you're right, better documentation would help tons. In the past, EQ relied heavily on its fansites for that kind of thing but of course, those fansites were largely bought up or died as players moved on. But in lieu (or perhaps even in conjunction) with that, attracting people to the game simply by saying 'it's free to play' (which, like the cake, is a lie) isn't enough in this crowded marketplace. EQ is old, shows its age, but still has a lot to offer. Bringing more people in to see that for themselves is a good idea, as long as you don't affect "the levels that people care about".

As far as the expansion and its promises go, I'll use my standard MMO motto: It's vapor until beta. And hell, for EQ, it's vapor until release!

 

[SiegeTank]

I don't think we differ all that much on the bottom line. My point is dumbing down EQ as much as WoW is NOT going to make EQ more competitive with WoW. Not significantly. It's too late for that and I don't know if it ever would have worked. So removing every aspect of EQ that is slightly more challenging than WoW is going to destroy the game's identity without an appreciable gain in customer base. That's my opinion, at least.

I think the best Sony can hope for with EQ at this point is to retain existing players (as much as possible) and perhaps enjoy some slight growth from returnees and newcomers who enjoy what makes EQ DIFFERENT from WoW. Making some aspects of the game at least slightly challenging (like practicing spells so you don't fizzle in combat) is attractive to some people. Maybe not SPECIFICALLY chain-casting a spell but the general idea that some benefits require at least "some" work, they're not just handed to you.

Here's an example: languages. EQ has this whole thing about learning languages. They're what, about 28 languages you can learn. Outside of the FV server (with no "common" tongue) and a few rare quests, there's really NO good reason to bother with getting your skills to 100 in all 28 languages. Yet quite a few players go to the trouble to max out at least some languages and there is a sizeable minority who tries to max them all. Why? Because it's a challenge. It used to be a MUCH bigger challenge when learning a language took a shitload of time, you had to zone every few skillups, you had to converse with another PLAYER who had a higher skill level (makes sense), etc. They've dumbed this down a lot, probably too much. But it's still a challenge that appeals to some players. Probably not to players who prefer Wow's "style" and this is at least ONE reason they play EQ.

I have played WoW but not in a long while. I do remember back when I played Horde and Alliance players could NOT talk with each other NO MATTER WHAT. I always thought THAT was lame. I can remember making an alt on another account just to talk with someone on the other side so we could agree to split a camp. LOL. We couldn't group but we still found a way so both of us could share a camp of mobs. Even with Horde and Alliance being eternal enemies, there should be some way in that game for communication to be possible. Even mortal enemies can communicate. Maybe there is now, of course, like I said, I haven't played WoW in years...

 

[William12]

I would be shocked if EQ survives EQ 3 of course we were all shocked it survived EQ2 even so much as to match EQ2s population at one point years after EQ2 came out. I still think EQ2 is the best pve MMO out.

 

[SiegeTank]

I can't be shocked until I see EQ3.

 

[Remianen]

I don't think we differ all that much on the bottom line. My point is dumbing down EQ as much as WoW is NOT going to make EQ more competitive with WoW. Not significantly. It's too late for that and I don't know if it ever would have worked. So removing every aspect of EQ that is slightly more challenging than WoW is going to destroy the game's identity without an appreciable gain in customer base. That's my opinion, at least.

I totally agree with you. But the key for MMOs nowadays is "stickiness". That is, getting people invested in their characters, in the world, in the game overall. WoW characters are largely disposable because it takes no effort to develop them. EQ's characters will never be disposable....after you get them to a certain level (that level differs to many but most people will agree it's somewhere over 71, if not 75). When you consider the effort that goes into developing a characters (leveling, AAing (even now!), gearing, etc), EQ has probably the most potential stickiness of any game out now. So, to me at least, the key is to get people to the point where their characters start to matter most to them. In the old days, that was around level 31 (right after hell level 30). There was no way you would want to reroll or start over after experiencing that. Now, it's where you get to the point where you actually see other people when you're XPing.

I think the best Sony can hope for with EQ at this point is to retain existing players (as much as possible) and perhaps enjoy some slight growth from returnees and newcomers who enjoy what makes EQ DIFFERENT from WoW. Making some aspects of the game at least slightly challenging (like practicing spells so you don't fizzle in combat) is attractive to some people. Maybe not SPECIFICALLY chain-casting a spell but the general idea that some benefits require at least "some" work, they're not just handed to you.

I can't agree here. How many people here have "burnt out" on EQ and left for months or years? It's not uncommon. So retaining existing players while treating new or returning players as 'nice to have' isn't going to get this game to EQNext's release (assuming it ever is released. Hi The Agency!). EQ can still be EQ but bringing back its 'EverCrack' elements wouldn't hurt. It would probably even help since, as you know, most people are 75+. That's where the action is (not counting Fippy, which might have tons of "new" players). Speeding people through to 60 isn't going to harm the game at all and they still have to get to the 75+ range (farming AA along the way or woe be unto them!).

Here's an example: languages. EQ has this whole thing about learning languages. They're what, about 28 languages you can learn. Outside of the FV server (with no "common" tongue) and a few rare quests, there's really NO good reason to bother with getting your skills to 100 in all 28 languages. Yet quite a few players go to the trouble to max out at least some languages and there is a sizeable minority who tries to max them all. Why? Because it's a challenge. It used to be a MUCH bigger challenge when learning a language took a shitload of time, you had to zone every few skillups, you had to converse with another PLAYER who had a higher skill level (makes sense), etc. They've dumbed this down a lot, probably too much. But it's still a challenge that appeals to some players. Probably not to players who prefer Wow's "style" and this is at least ONE reason they play EQ.

Pre-Kunark, it was swimming. There was no reason to keep swimming up because nobody liked Kedge and EQ's designers didn't know how to do zones with the Z axis in play. There was no real reason to max swimming until years later (well, sooner if you were a bard/mage/wizard and needed to frequent Kedge) but some people (myself included) did it anyway. There will always be completionists. Other games use actual "achievements" to give people stuff to chase. Languages were (and still are, even on FV) fluff. They were for RP value primarily. Other games have lots of fluff content that people can (and do) chase. Minipets, anyone? I farmed the shizzle out of the Wetlands for a dragon whelp and that was a helluva lot harder (or rather, tedious) than maxing all 28 of EQ's languages. But that game can be played by a mildly trained chimpanzee so that doesn't make it 'hard' or even bring it close to EQ. Okay, maybe it does in some ways. That Wetlands camp felt very much like Pained Soul camp for the original VP key.

I have played WoW but not in a long while. I do remember back when I played Horde and Alliance players could NOT talk with each other NO MATTER WHAT. I always thought THAT was lame. I can remember making an alt on another account just to talk with someone on the other side so we could agree to split a camp. LOL. We couldn't group but we still found a way so both of us could share a camp of mobs. Even with Horde and Alliance being eternal enemies, there should be some way in that game for communication to be possible. Even mortal enemies can communicate. Maybe there is now, of course, like I said, I haven't played WoW in years...

Yeah, the game has become a lot easier than you remember. There was a reason the term 'faceroll difficulty' derived there.

All I'm saying is, finding ways to bring new people in and make them stay (by making them value their characters and what they've accomplished up to that point) is one reason most of us are still playing. There were people who complained when they did away with having to look at your spellbook to meditate. They said not being able to see added danger so you had to be sure where you were before you sat down to med. It was bullshit back then and it's still bullshit now. Bringing folks in and hooking them on the game can only extend the game's life. You don't have to gut EQ's difficulty but making it easier to get to the part of the game where "everyone" is while being largely functional, wouldn't take much effort and it wouldn't harm the game overall.

 

[SiegeTank]

The irony in what you say is that the key is to get players to level up to the point where their character matters to them, where they're "invested" in their toon. Yet the Catch-22 is if you make it too easy for them to get there their character will never really matter to them because they've never made an "investment" in the toon!

Sounds like you're saying, and I agree, that it's the JOURNEY that generates the commitment. Climb 2/3 of the way up Mount Everest and you'll do everything short of risking your life (and some even go that far) to get all the way to the top. Get helicoptered 2/3 of the way to the top and you probably won't make nearly as hard an effort to make the rest of the climb.

 

[hawthorne]

I don't think we differ all that much on the bottom line. My point is dumbing down EQ as much as WoW is NOT going to make EQ more competitive with WoW. Not significantly. It's too late for that and I don't know if it ever would have worked. So removing every aspect of EQ that is slightly more challenging than WoW is going to destroy the game's identity without an appreciable gain in customer base. That's my opinion, at least.

I would actually argue that EQ2 is a perfect case study for this. When the game release, 2 weeks before WoW, btw, It had class structure that was very different for the time. 3 branching tiers. It had a crafting system that relied on making things to make things, to make things and encouraged, even required, interaction between crafters. Now, there is no reason to interact, and everyone start not just with their final class, but with a full set of gear. One of the things that also set it apart, and I believe was the basis for the Rank spell system, was the ranked spells in EQ2, 4 ranks of apprentice, Then Adept, and Master, and finally Grandmaster. I loved EQ2 when it came out. Then they saw the popularity of WoW and they started to make changes. Customers screamed at them that things were tooooooo hard, and they made changes. Customers screamed at them that they didn't want to craft minor items, they didn't want to be a summoner or predator or warrior, they wanted to be their final class right away. And vast parts of the game just.. went away. EQ has not changed nearly as much as EQ2 has. It's a good game now, but it's not what it was. And I loved what it was. It's a big reason I don't play it anymore.

 

[StaticX27]

I don't think we differ all that much on the bottom line. My point is dumbing down EQ as much as WoW is NOT going to make EQ more competitive with WoW. Not significantly. It's too late for that and I don't know if it ever would have worked. So removing every aspect of EQ that is slightly more challenging than WoW is going to destroy the game's identity without an appreciable gain in customer base. That's my opinion, at least.

I would actually argue that EQ2 is a perfect case study for this. When the game release, 2 weeks before WoW, btw, It had class structure that was very different for the time. 3 branching tiers. It had a crafting system that relied on making things to make things, to make things and encouraged, even required, interaction between crafters. Now, there is no reason to interact, and everyone start not just with their final class, but with a full set of gear. One of the things that also set it apart, and I believe was the basis for the Rank spell system, was the ranked spells in EQ2, 4 ranks of apprentice, Then Adept, and Master, and finally Grandmaster. I loved EQ2 when it came out. Then they saw the popularity of WoW and they started to make changes. Customers screamed at them that things were tooooooo hard, and they made changes. Customers screamed at them that they didn't want to craft minor items, they didn't want to be a summoner or predator or warrior, they wanted to be their final class right away. And vast parts of the game just.. went away. EQ has not changed nearly as much as EQ2 has. It's a good game now, but it's not what it was. And I loved what it was. It's a big reason I don't play it anymore.

Problem is that you're trying to cater to a different breed of gamer. Gamers now-a-days have ADD. They want instant gratification. They no longer have the patience for 100+ hour single player RPG's. Why do you think the majority of RPG's sold for PC and console have around 30-40 hours of play time, when old school RPG's had over 100?

Do you really think EQ would have the popularity it has now if we still had to suffer through a week of hard grinding just to get through a hell level? People want instant gratification. Hell, we're on a site dedicated to automation software and cheating. As we speak, I'm running a Bind Wound macro. I started this game back in 2000 and have done all this by hand. I don't WANT to do it by hand, because honestly, I don't have the time anymore. I'm not a 15 year old kid with nothing to do. I'm an adult with a regular 8-5 job, in a country where overtime is expected, not rewarded. I'm lucky if I get home in time for raids, and when I'm done, I go straight to bed. I don't have time to do all this "skilling up" garbage I used to do as a kid. I don't have time to actually sit at the computer to grind out 100's of AA anymore, I have afk scripts for that now. And even on the weekends when I have, do you really think I wanna sit there doing this stuff by hand now that we have this lovely automation software to do it for us? I play one character, while running pete's bot mac for the other 2 characters in group.

Most gamers don't have the attention span to do the whole massive grind fest, especially since there are plenty of newer, prettier and more intuitive MMO's out there right now that are grind fests. I saw people on the EQ forum suggesting that POK needs to go away. How many players do you think EQ would have if it still took an hour to 2 hours just to break into a camp? EQ needed to move to a faster paced game otherwise it would have died a long time ago.

So now you've got a) gamers who had the patience to go through a slower paced game who now have jobs and can't dedicate the massive time to it, and b) gamers who have ADD and won't dedicate massive amounts of time to it. Sony is marketing to the changed market.

 

[hawthorne]

Problem is that you're trying to cater to a different breed of gamer. Gamers now-a-days have ADD. They want instant gratification. They no longer have the patience for 100+ hour single player RPG's. Why do you think the majority of RPG's sold for PC and console have around 30-40 hours of play time, when old school RPG's had over 100?

Do you really think EQ would have the popularity it has now if we still had to suffer through a week of hard grinding just to get through a hell level? People want instant gratification. Hell, we're on a site dedicated to automation software and cheating. As we speak, I'm running a Bind Wound macro. I started this game back in 2000 and have done all this by hand. I don't WANT to do it by hand, because honestly, I don't have the time anymore. I'm not a 15 year old kid with nothing to do. I'm an adult with a regular 8-5 job, in a country where overtime is expected, not rewarded. I'm lucky if I get home in time for raids, and when I'm done, I go straight to bed. I don't have time to do all this "skilling up" garbage I used to do as a kid. I don't have time to actually sit at the computer to grind out 100's of AA anymore, I have afk scripts for that now. And even on the weekends when I have, do you really think I wanna sit there doing this stuff by hand now that we have this lovely automation software to do it for us? I play one character, while running pete's bot mac for the other 2 characters in group.

Most gamers don't have the attention span to do the whole massive grind fest, especially since there are plenty of newer, prettier and more intuitive MMO's out there right now that are grind fests. I saw people on the EQ forum suggesting that POK needs to go away. How many players do you think EQ would have if it still took an hour to 2 hours just to break into a camp? EQ needed to move to a faster paced game otherwise it would have died a long time ago.

So now you've got a) gamers who had the patience to go through a slower paced game who now have jobs and can't dedicate the massive time to it, and b) gamers who have ADD and won't dedicate massive amounts of time to it. Sony is marketing to the changed market.

I do agree with you but I would say the problem is actually for more complex than just that. As a society we have been changed by the proliferation of digital devices. The world has sped up because of this, and it's created an entirely new mindset of now, now, now in everything, not just gaming. Do you still get a newspaper or do you get your news via RSS feed, or just trolling websites? Do you only get your movies via going to the theatre or renting a tape from Blockbuster, or do you have Netflix, Amazon VoD, or pirate everything you want? As a society, we want it faster, and gaming is just one aspect of that. You can even see the transformation taking place in table top games. How different is D&D 4th vs. AD&D 2nd? And the majority of the changes are, by the designers own admission, about speeding up the game play. They say so that there is more time for story, but in the end it becomes another symptom of the larger problem, that we cannot slow down and enjoy what we are working towards without a shiny pellet of reward every 5 mins.

When EQ was being designed, the standard portable music player was a discman. Perhaps a walkman if you preferred tapes. When was the last time you saw tapes sold in a retail store? What was old and worked in 99 will not work now. It just won't. The world is far more changed in the last 15 years than it was in the previous 15 years. And even then there were a ton of changed ins 1982-1997. VHS, CD, Birth of the internet, Fall of the Soviet Union, and more. This is what annoys me about people that beg over and over for a "Classic" server. Yeah, I enjoy nostalgia when I start on a Progression server, but my life is far more complicated now than it was in 99. And frankly, the strength of EQ back then was in late teens and early 20s college students becoming obsessed with the game. And that is just not going to happen again, unless you can create a game that speaks to what the current generation wants. What they really want.

Blizzard is claiming something like 10 million subs right now. After a high of 12 million they have had several bad quarters. 10 million sounds like a lot til you read that Blizzard China puts their WoW subs at 9.5 million. So, that means WoW, is 500K for NA, and Europe. All the traffic is coming from the far east. It is my opinion that the state of gaming is going to be pushed a lot by those gamers.

 

[StaticX27]

I do agree with you but I would say the problem is actually for more complex than just that. As a society we have been changed by the proliferation of digital devices. The world has sped up because of this, and it's created an entirely new mindset of now, now, now in everything, not just gaming. Do you still get a newspaper or do you get your news via RSS feed, or just trolling websites? Do you only get your movies via going to the theatre or renting a tape from Blockbuster, or do you have Netflix, Amazon VoD, or pirate everything you want? As a society, we want it faster, and gaming is just one aspect of that. You can even see the transformation taking place in table top games. How different is D&D 4th vs. AD&D 2nd? And the majority of the changes are, by the designers own admission, about speeding up the game play. They say so that there is more time for story, but in the end it becomes another symptom of the larger problem, that we cannot slow down and enjoy what we are working towards without a shiny pellet of reward every 5 mins.

When EQ was being designed, the standard portable music player was a discman. Perhaps a walkman if you preferred tapes. When was the last time you saw tapes sold in a retail store? What was old and worked in 99 will not work now. It just won't. The world is far more changed in the last 15 years than it was in the previous 15 years. And even then there were a ton of changed ins 1982-1997. VHS, CD, Birth of the internet, Fall of the Soviet Union, and more. This is what annoys me about people that beg over and over for a "Classic" server. Yeah, I enjoy nostalgia when I start on a Progression server, but my life is far more complicated now than it was in 99. And frankly, the strength of EQ back then was in late teens and early 20s college students becoming obsessed with the game. And that is just not going to happen again, unless you can create a game that speaks to what the current generation wants. What they really want.

Blizzard is claiming something like 10 million subs right now. After a high of 12 million they have had several bad quarters. 10 million sounds like a lot til you read that Blizzard China puts their WoW subs at 9.5 million. So, that means WoW, is 500K for NA, and Europe. All the traffic is coming from the far east. It is my opinion that the state of gaming is going to be pushed a lot by those gamers.

Yea, I cried when 4th edition came out for D&D... But, it's what sells now. I tried progression servers for awhile, but that old feeling wasn't there, and honestly, I was too used to live servers that progression servers just seemed pointless to me. I couldn't get excited over scoring a Cloak of Flames like I used to. That feeling of accomplishment was gone, since I've already done it.

It's true that EQ has a massive amount of content, but really, there's nothing of value if you go back beyond 1 or 2 expansions. Even when the new expansion comes out, there'll be no reason to go back beyond HoT. There's no feeling of accomplishment by going that far, it's just a rush to get to the end level and raid end content so you can again feel like you accomplished something. The whole journey to get there has lost all it's meaning and become a nuisance more than an accomplishment.