"Hacking, Suspensions and Bannings, Oh My"

hawthorne

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For those of you that do not troll the Station boards:

Ref: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=128146
greeblen said:
Greetings Norrath,
My name is Rich Schmelter and I am the Customer Service Manager for EverQuest, EverQuest II, and EverQuest Online Adventures. Some of you may remember me as "Greeblen Dah Ogah", server GM for Terris-Thule.
Since I am posting this on the EverQuest forums, I will keep the topics generalized to issues faced by the EverQuest community, though the applications of the policies you will find here are used in EQ II and EQOA and also apply to other situations like exploiting bugs or game mechanics to gain something unintended by development.
As many of you are aware, SOE has a privacy policy that prohibits us from talking to anyone other then the account holder regarding the specific disciplinary actions taken on an account with anyone but the account holder. But, since we often receive a lot of confusion regarding how we handle these situations from customers, I wanted to take a moment or two to clarify some things regarding how Customer Service handles accounts that are caught cheating through the use of 3rd party programs, commonly referred to as "hacking".
Now on to the meat and potatoes of the post...
First off, let me clarify that the use of any 3rd party program to alter game play is against our policies and can result in disciplinary action taken on your account, regardless of whether you used it once or a million times. (hackers, consider yourself warned)
Our policies regarding this are in place to ensure all our customers have a fun, safe, and fair gaming environment, and it is our job to enforce them. We take this matter very seriously and actively address it on a daily basis.
Unfortunately, there are many different ways to circumvent game mechanics (i.e. cheat) by using 3rd party programs, some of which have greater impact on PvP servers. Some are easy to detect, some are more difficult. Warping, ghost hacking, duping items, accessing areas without proper flagging, and automated/unattended game play are all examples of things that are players that are cheating with these programs are able to do.
I'm not going to get into specifics or discuss how we know when someone is cheating in this manner as I don't want to tip off any cheaters on how to avoid detection. Rest assured though that our development teams have given us some excellent tools to identify when this is happening and who is doing it and they are actively improving those detection and documentation tools as well as addressing the issues that allow people to cheat. Unfortunately, cheating has been a persistent issue for a very long time and is a constant battle between the hacking community and CS/Dev. It's an age old story: Boy hacks/cheats. Boy gets caught by CS and banned. Boy uses Girlfriend's account to cheat more. CS Bans Girlfriends account. Boy loses girl. Boy gets new account and new Girlfriend. Wash, rinse, repeat. Some of the things we do to prevent this have a greater affect then others, but the bottom line is that we spend a great deal of time removing accounts that cheat from the game in order to keep things fair and fun for our loyal customers that want to enjoy the world of Norrath the way it was meant to be played in.
Let me talk a minute about Benefit of the Doubt and the process that happens when someone is suspected of cheating. When someone reports another customer for hacking or any other SOE policy violation, we cannot simply take one person's word over another as this would lead to endless griefing between feuding players. We give them the benefit of the doubt and consider them innocent until proven guilty. Our staff must investigate the matter thoroughly and find the appropriate proof that the accused account did in fact cheat. This can take some time to accomplish but it is a necessary step and we do appreciate your patience in this area greatly. We then must document what really happened and evaluate what disciplinary action is most appropriate for that policy violation.
If you've ever had Jury Duty, then some of this may sound familiar.
  • Person commits crime (player hacks)
  • Police catch criminal (GM finds the hacker)
  • Lawyers document the crime and take the case to court (GM prepares documentation of what exactly the player did and goes to their supervisor or manager)
  • Judge rules on the case (CS Management reviews GM documentation and account history and determines what punishment fits the crime)
There was a recent post by our EverQuest Producer that briefly discussed the consequences currently being applied to hackers (http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/p...topic_id=128084) After reading responses to that thread, I wanted to clarify a bit more of the disciplinary actions an account that is confirmed as hacking receives.
An account caught / confirmed of hacking in all cases has all benefits of the hacking removed. This can include removing individual items/coin, character rollbacks, character wipes, and character deletion. Which ever is most appropriate to the specific situation.
In the Producer's post, it is stated that a first offense of hacking will result in a suspension. I saw a lot of negative comments regarding this, but while this is generally the case, we do ban accounts for first offenses of hacking when appropriate.
We evaluate each account on a case by case basis and the decision to suspend or ban an account (first offense or not) is affected by the frequency and severity of the policy violation (hacking in this case) and the account history. If the severity or frequency of the hacking warrants it, we will ban an account on a first offense. If the account has previously been suspended or if the customer has previously been suspended or banned on another account they own, the account may very well be banned on a first offense. If a customer has multiple accounts and is hacking on one, he may receive disciplinary action on all of his accounts as those accounts could have received benefits of his hacking on the one. Again, there are many factors we must take into consideration, but we investigate thoroughly and do apply appropriate disciplinary action to accounts and customers that violate our policies.
I want to state that benefitting from use of 3rd party programs is considered just as bad as using them yourself and you will receive the same discipline as if you used them. This means that if you are in a group where another person is using a hack to kill a raid mob, you are just as guilty as they are as you are gaining the same benefits from the cheating. If you are in a group and you see something fishy going on, it is in your best interest and the best interest of the game and the community to leave the group and report that person to Customer Service so we may investigate. Please also remember that you are responsible for any policy violations committed on your account and it is your responsibility to keep your account information secure. If you share your account info (or someone else gains it somehow) and that person uses your account to hack, your account will receive disciplinary action appropriate for the actions taken by it.
Hacking is an issue that greatly affects the community and is one that both Customer Service and Development are well aware of and actively addressing. We often receive petitions from the community identifying suspicious behavior (which we appreciate greatly). As 3rd party programs change and hackers adapt to our efforts, we counter with new tools, prevention methods, and procedures. Accounts that are hacking are investigated and disciplined daily. In fact, just last night, Customer Service finished a large investigation on EverQuest servers and we banned 212 accounts. Yes, you read that right, we banned two hundred and twelve accounts that were caught and confirmed to be hacking. These types of investigations are ongoing so expect to see more of these types of actions in the future.
I hope you found this post informative and that I have answered questions and eased concerns about this topic.
For more information on how Customer Service is addressing hacking and other related issues, please visit http://stationsupport.wordpress.com/ and read the latest blog entry by the Executive Director of Customer Service, Brad "Mutato" Wilcox.

edit: fix title
 
I've been talking with some friends and we aren't sure if this is just piss and wind or if there is some meat and potatoes behind this post. Irregardless, we are definitely toning things down for the time being to see where this all leads.
 
How could their dev team *not* know how MQ2 does what MQ2 does? It's an open source project. You could find the website with a "mq2" google search, download the zip in under 30s, and be in the "meat and potatoes" of the actual exe-reading code within a minute or two after that.
 
Bah, sorry for 3 in a row but this is something I think needs to be shown as well.

Ref: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=50&topic_id=128084
code-zero said:
There's a lot more to hacking in this game than the handful of idiots who go after endgame stuff that gets a lot of attention. There are scores of people using hacks to do stuff as simple as boxing full groups and powerleveling friends. The typical rationale of those sorts is that they aren't doing anything that they couldn't do anything if they'd just logged on their rogue/bard/ranger/whatever. They are out there and they are hurting the game a hell of a lot more than that handful killing 2 gods. Hacker are poisonous to the game as this sort of thing leads to tolerance of their behavior. Anyone can scream about how unfair it is to get into some raiding instance but it's equally unfair to ignore guys who go to bed leaving their /afk PLing group up and running for a few days till they've got their friends 'caught up'

Suspensions for first offenses are a good thing and will make people think. The shrieking focus on the handful of Solteris hackers is purely stupid.
 
LOL at zero003 for stirring up the noobs and retards on that board.

Leave it alone, hawthorne. EQ is what, 9 years old now? 8? MQ2 is here to stay. The so-called "Power Hacks" come and go, but there's no amount of complaining by the legitimate players that could cause SOE to try to get rid of botters...not when they make up a very significant percentage of the game income. Try not to raise crazed masses of people here, too. It's fine when people who don't know anything at all about MQ start babbling about random shite, but when people who actually use the program start running around with like headless chickens, it makes the baby Jesus cry.
 
Without MQ2, EQ is finished...

They can complain all they want... I have said it before, and I will say it again, in the end, if Sony puts an end to MQ2, I will be done with them. Banning or suspension won't matter, because I wouldn't play the game anymore without MQ2.

I have a feeling that there are a LOT of poeple out there that feel as I do, and when there are so few people left in the game that the whiners don't have anyone left to play with... I wonder what they will cry about then?

I say Fuck`em all... The whiners, the GMs, and Sony too.
 
Jealousy

Most of the whining is due to jealousy. People get mad that they can't kill a raid mob and some hacker did. Or they are upset they can't find a group on their server and someone bots a full group. They can get rid of mq2 if they wanted to, or at least make it hard enough that the mq2 folks do not want to spend the time to fix it anymore. If they do that, all my accounts will close, as I am sure half the people reading this. Some will stick around. I only came back to playing after a long break because of mq2. I doubt sony will do anything. The big hacks in some ways are good, because if they weren't around, you'd get people focused on warpers more and more of them would get banned.
 
Wow way to throw blame at me for something I haven't even been near. Just because there was a zero name?

TheZ iv known ya for awhile. I don't post on eq boards only browse them and look at the topics and such. But like a few people know. I have quit the game for almost 5 months now. Deleted it hard drives, deleted MQ, Mac's and every plugin that I had. I have no urge to even return to EQ nor want to play another MMO game.

You sent me a IM last night when I woke up. This is the first chance iv even been near the EQ boards for awhile. Which I replied to you asking what you are talking about and even that I haven't been near EQ for 5 months. Now that I see you stirring my name up on these boards to make ya feel like God again to throw people names everywhere without a shred of proof. WOW a ZERO name thats HIM!!! KILL HIM!!! laugh.
 
LOL...zero, dude, that wasn't blame, or me being nasty, that was a little bit of needling, me having fun with you =p Not trying to stir up trouble!
 
I posted these, not to create some sky is falling, end of the world, mentality. But, rather, to inform the people that may not go to the eqforums, jsut what is being said. Knowledge is power and all that.
 
I tend to fall on the same side as Vlad. Being that i have had 1 on my 2god accounts banned, but not the other 3 i agree that its a jealousy issue. soon as i reveal a solteris account, 200 people from high end guilds are wondering where i came from, say they have friends in every high end guild in the game and that none of them know me. blah blah they report me. If not for a GM friend of mine i prolly would have been banned long ago. But 32 /report and /petitions and such later, some people just cant get over the fact other are better then them.

I direct your attention to looking for a small film...some dude that plays WoW...greatest pally ever or some shit. he would report you =P
 
I belive your refering to [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLYrFR9RT_U&feature=related] THIS![/ame]
 
I posted these, not to create some sky is falling, end of the world, mentality. But, rather, to inform the people that may not go to the eqforums, jsut what is being said. Knowledge is power and all that.

That's cool bro, I appreciated your post, was a good read. I don't do the official forums, and refuse to use them, until those fucksticks install a functional retard filter. Signal to noise ratio is OOC.

htw
 
OK so question, since this just got stirred up on my guild's boards also, and there is a small group of us that MQ just for the passive features and such. We do not condone GK'g, and try and come down hard on n00bs who openly warp and do stupid shit that draw attention to the more peaceful side of MQ.

What about this rumor of a way to track map activities? Some new file/code going in within the last week or so relating to this?

I turned off MQ and I'm miserable .... But I don't want to risk anything this week if this is even remotely possible.

So other than the normal shit we can get caught for, what about the passive shit that shouldn't be traceable?
 
To my knowledge, there is nothing in Vanilla MQ2 that is traceable, other than the stupid user error. They CAN see you cross zone targetting, but there's .0001% chance they're bored enough to run around checking people's targetting packets, so if they're checking yours, you've already messed up bigtime.

Then there's the active stuff here, which can get you banned, but is like .01% chance except for said stupid user error. FastMemming in front of people a lot, Warping in front of people, zoning with people around, etc etc. If you're noticing the trend, so long as you only use active stuff around people who you KNOW aren't going to snitch on you, your chances of meeting that ban stick are extremely small.

Then there's the small list of plugins here that DO trip some major flags. I believe there was a big stir a while back about GetMission leading directly to a bunch of bans/suspensions. As far as I know, there aren't any others here that have caused anything over that .1% chance.

So, if you and you friends are using anything above, so long as you make sure to prevent those id 10 T errors, you'll be 99.999% sure that Sony will never even notice you exist.
 
Can you elaborate just briefly on the cross-zone targetting that is traceable?

Maybe this is what they are referring to.
 
Anyone that claims 100% knowledge of what is traceable in Vanilla MQ2 is full of shit.

Use of active hacks is traceable
Use of vanilla MQ2 no one knows for sure what is traceable.
 
Jim, the stuff that's client side only, like HUD, Map, Itemdisplay, Labels, and such, would be nearly impossible for them to track, as far as I know.

Another clue is that I have yet to here of anyone being banned for Vanilla MQ2 usage without doing something stupid like "/ooc I use MQ2. Please ban me".
 
Can you elaborate just briefly on the cross-zone targetting that is traceable?

Maybe this is what they are referring to.

Sony can definitely see what you are targeting. They cannot see what you see on your computer screen, but they can damn well see what you target, what you put into your inventory, and probably a few other things. So, if yhou are being watched for whatever reason, and you target a mob on the other side of the zone, a GM can see this. If you are afk foraging, a GM can see what you are putting into your inventory, or what you automatically destroy.

Also, I am going to agree with JJ on the matter of what Sony can trace, no one knows for sure, except SOE, and they aren't telling.