What's the actually harm in using SOE Launcher?

[tpb211]

I am having the same issue as another member. We are unable to log in using the mmoloader, or innerspace pointed at the eqgame.exe

What actually is happening when one logs in using the SoE launcher that is causing concern?

Does this happen only during the log in process? or does it continue to cause issues when you are in game?

Really need some help with this!

I want to point out this is not a incorrect station name, or password being entered.

We are getting the same "Timeout" error one would see however if they did enter incorrect data.

One of my over a dozen accounts began having this issue after having an authenticator added, then removed. (No issues when authenticator was active, now that it is removed it gives the timeout. I am able to login via soe loader)

Thanks for your time and help in advance!

Tpb211

 

[Nicedreamsbt]

I was having a timeout problem when logging in also. was not sure if it was my slow internet or what. i would have to sit at each instance of eq and make sure it logged in. If i used the autologin plugin some of the accounts would get a timeout error. It seems to work now but if i am not looking at the instance of eq i get a timeout error on the login sometimes

 

[Fry]

Here's how I understand it.

SoE Launcher reports to Sony what programs are running on your computer.

We have no proof they have ever used it to track MQ2, but they could if they wanted to.

Not allowing Launcher to be loaded when MQ2 is loaded seemed like the most logical step to take for not putting people at risk, which is what we've done. I'm really unsure of the best solution for your problem. If we add a way to be able to bypass the auto closing feature this would put people at risk.

 

[zdozbou]

Here's how I understand it.

SoE Launcher reports to Sony what programs are running on your computer.

We have no proof they have ever used it to track MQ2, but they could if they wanted to.

Not allowing Launcher to be loaded when MQ2 is loaded seemed like the most logical step to take for not putting people at risk, which is what we've done. I'm really unsure of the best solution for your problem. If we add a way to be able to bypass the auto closing feature this would put people at risk.

Add the feature, but make us jump through hoops to enable it, with big bold flashy text on screen saying we are putting ourselves at risk by enabling it.

 

[Rasmussenn]

If you can't load the game with MQ2 loaded use the launcher and then load MQ2 afterward. You can load it at server select, at character select, or after you're in world.

The only problem you'd have at that point would be reloading sessions if you switch accounts or crash.

 

[Xeniaz]

I have a launcher people can use that works similar to the way Launchpad starts the sessions. If anyone is interested in beta testing this I'd be happy to provide them access. It also has support for launching multiple accounts at once, and even auto-generating your autologin ini based off of information collected for launching the accounts (Although this doesn't currently work for live, it will soon). The launcher works for both live and emulator servers.

 

[devestator]

Here's how I understand it.

SoE Launcher reports to Sony what programs are running on your computer.

We have no proof they have ever used it to track MQ2, but they could if they wanted to.

Not allowing Launcher to be loaded when MQ2 is loaded seemed like the most logical step to take for not putting people at risk, which is what we've done. I'm really unsure of the best solution for your problem. If we add a way to be able to bypass the auto closing feature this would put people at risk.

I have a question concerning this possibly you or htw can answer. It seems no botting programs for any games use this and I've never figured out why so curious.

Why not use randomly named executables? Not just random characters but randomly named based on dictionary words or something. You'd have one MMOLoader.exe for example, and that exe will move and randomly name, then launch the actual mmoloader executable, then close itself. When I used to run my own compiles back in 2005ish, I always named the executable notepad.exe =/

I'm sure there is some simple reason why not to do this and I'm just overlooking it lol.

 

[Xeniaz]

Sure, it would be possible for us to rename it, or allow people to customize it, but the big issue that remains isn't mmoloader.exe, it's the plugins that are loaded into EQ's memory space. That's what launchpad is scanning for. The scan routines are two parts, one, an unused function in launchpad.exe that actually performs the scanning, and two, a call to that function from inside eqgame.exe. Long story short, it's not a bad idea, it's just not going to protect us from launchpad.

 

[JimJohnson]

So launchpad = soe version of warden basically?

 

[Fry]

Here's how I understand it.

SoE Launcher reports to Sony what programs are running on your computer.

We have no proof they have ever used it to track MQ2, but they could if they wanted to.

Not allowing Launcher to be loaded when MQ2 is loaded seemed like the most logical step to take for not putting people at risk, which is what we've done. I'm really unsure of the best solution for your problem. If we add a way to be able to bypass the auto closing feature this would put people at risk.

I have a question concerning this possibly you or htw can answer. It seems no botting programs for any games use this and I've never figured out why so curious.

Why not use randomly named executables? Not just random characters but randomly named based on dictionary words or something. You'd have one MMOLoader.exe for example, and that exe will move and randomly name, then launch the actual mmoloader executable, then close itself. When I used to run my own compiles back in 2005ish, I always named the executable notepad.exe =/

I'm sure there is some simple reason why not to do this and I'm just overlooking it lol.

WoWGlider used to do this.

It would randomly rename the exe, randomly create the size of the exe, and believe ran it under a rootkit to hide it.

 

[rob]

I imagine that is one way to get your application flagged as malicious

 

[tpb211]

Sure, it would be possible for us to rename it, or allow people to customize it, but the big issue that remains isn't mmoloader.exe, it's the plugins that are loaded into EQ's memory space. That's what launchpad is scanning for. The scan routines are two parts, one, an unused function in launchpad.exe that actually performs the scanning, and two, a call to that function from inside eqgame.exe. Long story short, it's not a bad idea, it's just not going to protect us from launchpad.

How solid is this information? Is there anyone out there who can second this?

If I am reading what you are saying correctly, this is a potential problem in the future but not being used now?

Making that observation based on your statement of the function in Launchpad being an unused function.

Now what is preventing eqgame.exe from calling Launchpad to run this scan during your gaming session?

 

[Fry]

Xeniaz was the person who originally figured this all out, and caused MacroQuest2.com to take the same actions we are for launchpad.

I think Xeniaz knows the launcher better than anyone due to his work in reverse engineering it.

 

[William12]

Sure, it would be possible for us to rename it, or allow people to customize it, but the big issue that remains isn't mmoloader.exe, it's the plugins that are loaded into EQ's memory space. That's what launchpad is scanning for. The scan routines are two parts, one, an unused function in launchpad.exe that actually performs the scanning, and two, a call to that function from inside eqgame.exe. Long story short, it's not a bad idea, it's just not going to protect us from launchpad.

How solid is this information? Is there anyone out there who can second this?

If I am reading what you are saying correctly, this is a potential problem in the future but not being used now?

Making that observation based on your statement of the function in Launchpad being an unused function.

Now what is preventing eqgame.exe from calling Launchpad to run this scan during your gaming session?

We've said for years if SOE wanted to stop MQ2 from being used they could. The current version doesn't protect us if they decided to scan when the game is running. Like anything though you can adjust and find ways around that. Blizzard has been trying to get rid of HB for years and still cant with a budget 100 times whatever SOE uses for EQs antihack detection.

 

[Xeniaz]

The function never gets called directly by Launchpad itself. All of the functionality is there, but its the game that actually makes use of that function. Also, the game does not start launchpad while you are playing, nor would it be able to launch it due to the protections we have in place. Our countermeasure is adequate for the threat. I have a fully working alternative to Launchpad for starting EQ sessions, and am also partially done implementing a patcher for EQ as well. Right now development of that patcher is on hold, but I'll be resuming it in the near future.

Again, if anyone is interested in my launcher, shoot me a PM and I'll make it available to you. I'm not ready to publicly release it yet until the code has been cleaned up a bit more, and the interface revamped. It's just a proof of concept right now.

 

[Xeniaz]

Sure, it would be possible for us to rename it, or allow people to customize it, but the big issue that remains isn't mmoloader.exe, it's the plugins that are loaded into EQ's memory space. That's what launchpad is scanning for. The scan routines are two parts, one, an unused function in launchpad.exe that actually performs the scanning, and two, a call to that function from inside eqgame.exe. Long story short, it's not a bad idea, it's just not going to protect us from launchpad.

How solid is this information? Is there anyone out there who can second this?

If I am reading what you are saying correctly, this is a potential problem in the future but not being used now?

Making that observation based on your statement of the function in Launchpad being an unused function.

Now what is preventing eqgame.exe from calling Launchpad to run this scan during your gaming session?

We've said for years if SOE wanted to stop MQ2 from being used they could. The current version doesn't protect us if they decided to scan when the game is running. Like anything though you can adjust and find ways around that. Blizzard has been trying to get rid of HB for years and still cant with a budget 100 times whatever SOE uses for EQs antihack detection.

When the customer has access to the client, the best that they can do is slow us down. A reverse engineer given enough time and motivation can find a way to overcome anything they might add to the client.

 

[cullil]

I ran into the same problem, but only when the SOE launcher needs to update. I just exited MMOBugs, patched the launcher, exited launcher, started Bugs back up and started eq. No more problems after that.

 

[Ursister]

I am having the same issue as another member. We are unable to log in using the mmoloader, or innerspace pointed at the eqgame.exe

What actually is happening when one logs in using the SoE launcher that is causing concern?

Does this happen only during the log in process? or does it continue to cause issues when you are in game?

Really need some help with this!

I want to point out this is not a incorrect station name, or password being entered.

We are getting the same "Timeout" error one would see however if they did enter incorrect data.

One of my over a dozen accounts began having this issue after having an authenticator added, then removed. (No issues when authenticator was active, now that it is removed it gives the timeout. I am able to login via soe loader)

Thanks for your time and help in advance!

Tpb211

I use WinEq from lavishsoft. Doesn't appear they can backtrack through it.