Mage pets

[Mojoguy01]

5 mages + shaman is silly unless you just want to do it for shits and giggles. If so, you can ignore the rest. if not, continue reading.

Group requirements for any content: Tank, CC, Healer - highly desired: puller.

5 mage + shaman = does gives you all but pulling, but you are far from maxing dps because mages dont "stack" in group and have no knockback capability for adds.

You would have significantly more utility by swapping in a necro for pulls + group heals + mana tap if required + CC for one of the mages. Also, necro gets an AA that gives 1 million point rune for 45 seconds. It is absolutely amazing to tank named with when needed.

You would get a lot more caster oriented dps by using druid over shaman. + you would get ports and stuns.

so say 1 nec, 4 mages, 1 druid. well ok.. thats better. but a single bard could add straight 45% spell damage and a ton of pet haste/proc stuff that would more than compensate for the loss of a single mage. + your mana regen is through the roof and you now have a really good puller. + bard can DA/tank named in a pinch with discs should that be required.

So 1 nec, 3 mages, 1 bard, 1 druid. Now that would still let you swap another mage out if you wanted to put a wiz in there for more dps + more stuns + bigger burns. AND/OR you could add an enchanter in there for additional mana regen, additional mezzes, additional stuns, additional punts. enc would be the easiest to not include.

So ultimate group probably closer to:
1 nec, 1 mage, 2 wiz, 1 bard, 1 druid. Your dps would be stupid. You would have redundancy for every category in case someone died. Mobs would die so fast that it would actually be an issue of running out of mobs anywhere you were.

Food for thought.

EDIT: and now after writing all that i see you arent even playing on a normal server. so you can disregard everything entirely.

Well the advice helps for future planning too .

Also, the point of doing 5 mages + 1 shaman + 1 enc outside the group is that it is almost not even an "Active" setup. Meaning I don't have to manage all my toons myself 24/7 doing all these little tedious things per pull.

I've never done well with macro plugins since they're limited in documentation (when I tried them), or I get people like Dealings whom derail question threads & completely shut down any possible help to get with those.

I might change it up a little and do 4 mages, 1 bard, and the shaman. However, from asking tons of advice in-game shaman was the #1 recommended class to pair with mages. Porting isn't as needed as it was pre-PoP so a druid isn't necessary. A necro is ok, but can be a squishy puller. A bard might easily make up for that anyways .

I'll take what you said and dwell on it though, thanks! Definitely not wasted time as I'm sure someone else might use it as a basis for their own team.

Once again, thanks !

 

[SiegeTank]

You would have significantly more utility by swapping in a necro for pulls + group heals + mana tap if required + CC for one of the mages. Also, necro gets an AA that gives 1 million point rune for 45 seconds. It is absolutely amazing to tank named with when needed.

What's the name of this AA? I was curious to read about it but can't find it. There's a real dearth of detailed current info on necro abilities on the web!

 

[Remianen]

5 mages + shaman is silly unless you just want to do it for shits and giggles. If so, you can ignore the rest. if not, continue reading.

Group requirements for any content: Tank, CC, Healer - highly desired: puller.

5 mage + shaman = does gives you all but pulling, but you are far from maxing dps because mages dont "stack" in group and have no knockback capability for adds.

You would have significantly more utility by swapping in a necro for pulls + group heals + mana tap if required + CC for one of the mages. Also, necro gets an AA that gives 1 million point rune for 45 seconds. It is absolutely amazing to tank named with when needed.

You would get a lot more caster oriented dps by using druid over shaman. + you would get ports and stuns.

so say 1 nec, 4 mages, 1 druid. well ok.. thats better. but a single bard could add straight 45% spell damage and a ton of pet haste/proc stuff that would more than compensate for the loss of a single mage. + your mana regen is through the roof and you now have a really good puller. + bard can DA/tank named in a pinch with discs should that be required.

So 1 nec, 3 mages, 1 bard, 1 druid. Now that would still let you swap another mage out if you wanted to put a wiz in there for more dps + more stuns + bigger burns. AND/OR you could add an enchanter in there for additional mana regen, additional mezzes, additional stuns, additional punts. enc would be the easiest to not include.

So ultimate group probably closer to:
1 nec, 1 mage, 2 wiz, 1 bard, 1 druid. Your dps would be stupid. You would have redundancy for every category in case someone died. Mobs would die so fast that it would actually be an issue of running out of mobs anywhere you were.

Food for thought.

EDIT: and now after writing all that i see you arent even playing on a normal server. so you can disregard everything entirely.

Well the advice helps for future planning too .

Also, the point of doing 5 mages + 1 shaman + 1 enc outside the group is that it is almost not even an "Active" setup. Meaning I don't have to manage all my toons myself 24/7 doing all these little tedious things per pull.

I've never done well with macro plugins since they're limited in documentation (when I tried them), or I get people like Dealings whom derail question threads & completely shut down any possible help to get with those.

I might change it up a little and do 4 mages, 1 bard, and the shaman. However, from asking tons of advice in-game shaman was the #1 recommended class to pair with mages. Porting isn't as needed as it was pre-PoP so a druid isn't necessary. A necro is ok, but can be a squishy puller. A bard might easily make up for that anyways .

I'll take what you said and dwell on it though, thanks! Definitely not wasted time as I'm sure someone else might use it as a basis for their own team.

Once again, thanks !

Dealings is absolutely right though. For someone who hasn't played past PoP, you sure assume/presume a lot of stuff. Necros are squishy pullers? Did you not read the post that mentioned ONE of their damage mitigation abilities? And if you take the advice from general to heart, unfiltered, you'll lose every time.

The best support class for a caster group is, and always will be, a bard (enchanter would be a close second). Shaman don't shine in caster groups since most of their adps abilities....are melee based. Now sure, you could say that Panther on pets will be great but then you ignore the fact that the bard brings MORE to a melee group AND adds to caster damage. Lemme show you:

Aura (like this: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=35203)

/twist these
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=35188
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=35164
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=35119
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=3066

So, you're AoE slowing mobs by 55% AND taking the pets to the haste cap AND adding a fat DS AND increasing minimum and average melee damage AND increasing heals AND adding big HME regen (144/95/14...before mods). No healer? Well then replace that song with this one. Oh yeah, and Kaficus's proc beats the shit out of Snow Leopard (Snow Leopard = 1439, Kaficus = 6770 w/hate reduction added on top).

I love Shaman to death but they are by no means the best choice for a caster group and haven't been for quite a few years (PoR era?). If you're willing to pay the opportunity cost, Shaman is a good choice but it is by no means the best choice. Those people in /general were leading you wrong.

 

[SiegeTank]

Wow, that sold me! I'm going to make a bard on my enchanter account and swap out the bard for my enchanter! No kidding...

 

[Anything]

I run a level 100 wiz, bard, Mage fully raid geared with earth pet, Merc-healer, wiz, wiz.

I box most anything, even instances just pop Merc healer until warning goes off

Ps. I dropped my shammy and added bard about 6 moths ago.

 

[Mojoguy01]

Dealings is absolutely right though. For someone who hasn't played past PoP, you sure assume/presume a lot of stuff. Necros are squishy pullers? Did you not read the post that mentioned ONE of their damage mitigation abilities? And if you take the advice from general to heart, unfiltered, you'll lose every time.

The best support class for a caster group is, and always will be, a bard (enchanter would be a close second). Shaman don't shine in caster groups since most of their adps abilities....are melee based. Now sure, you could say that Panther on pets will be great but then you ignore the fact that the bard brings MORE to a melee group AND adds to caster damage. Lemme show you:

Aura (like this: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=35203)

/twist these
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=35188
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=35164
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=35119
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=3066

So, you're AoE slowing mobs by 55% AND taking the pets to the haste cap AND adding a fat DS AND increasing minimum and average melee damage AND increasing heals AND adding big HME regen (144/95/14...before mods). No healer? Well then replace that song with this one. Oh yeah, and Kaficus's proc beats the shit out of Snow Leopard (Snow Leopard = 1439, Kaficus = 6770 w/hate reduction added on top).

I love Shaman to death but they are by no means the best choice for a caster group and haven't been for quite a few years (PoR era?). If you're willing to pay the opportunity cost, Shaman is a good choice but it is by no means the best choice. Those people in /general were leading you wrong.

To be fair Dealings was being obscure with many of his posts, and was confusing.

However, what you posted is absolutely the information I was looking for. I had no idea they were so damn useful. I've just been looking at BARD abilities pre-PoP etc and getting sad at how sad they're pre 65.

That AOE slow is awesome too.


Bard, Mage, Mage, Mage, Mage, Cleric is my new Ideal setup. I may switch a mage out for a Necromancer. However, again, i'm hesitant to run something so active.

Maybe down/upshits will allow me to do something like this with a necromancer in place of a mage.

 

[Dealings]

Bard, Mage, Mage, Mage, Mage, Cleric

on what ever server w what ever expansion and what ever gear sure why not

um wiz wiz wiz wiz sk shm , sure why not

zerk zerk zerk bard sk shm sure why not

ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger (bad ass one) cler

yea what ever why not

me personally on a regular server w current expansion gear aa etc

currently

bard puller and songs
mage (main pet tank)
necro (back up pet tank) never needed mostly dps
wiz (hey he doesnt have a pet but nukes up to 184k atm
chanter cause yea i like twincast aura maybe recurssion and sometimes cc
merc healer

i also do
sk
shm
bard
zerk
ranger
bst

but yea if u play on some goofy server w out current expansions and fighting stuff thats irrelevant can make ANY combo and make it work

think the bar u need to set is this
can i kill mobs in 20s or less (how much less)
can I kill any named
can I survive EASILY every encounter
will my toons fulfill my needs (travel buffs etc)
then make what ever grp u want.

a full mage grp that is actually burning mana is gonna be one sad grp when they are all low or out.............

 

[Mojoguy01]

Bard, Mage, Mage, Mage, Mage, Cleric

on what ever server w what ever expansion and what ever gear sure why not

um wiz wiz wiz wiz sk shm , sure why not

zerk zerk zerk bard sk shm sure why not

ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger (bad ass one) cler

yea what ever why not

me personally on a regular server w current expansion gear aa etc

currently

bard puller and songs
mage (main pet tank)
necro (back up pet tank) never needed mostly dps
wiz (hey he doesnt have a pet but nukes up to 184k atm
chanter cause yea i like twincast aura maybe recurssion and sometimes cc
merc healer

i also do
sk
shm
bard
zerk
ranger
bst

but yea if u play on some goofy server w out current expansions and fighting stuff thats irrelevant can make ANY combo and make it work

think the bar u need to set is this
can i kill mobs in 20s or less (how much less)
can I kill any named
can I survive EASILY every encounter
will my toons fulfill my needs (travel buffs etc)
then make what ever grp u want.

a full mage grp that is actually burning mana is gonna be one sad grp when they are all low or out.............

The strength of a mage group are their pets. Free DPS without the cost of mana so long as you aren't constantly casting them.

Thank you for your clear input Dealings

 

[Dealings]

a strength of a mage is his pet

the strength of 4 mages in a grp makes every other pet not be as vital as other classes could be in that grp

my mage single nukes 143k (twincasts dble that), doesnt mean hell out dps a wiz or make it worthwhile to replace bard w another mage

point is you are getting diminishing results when u dble up triple up some classes, u most cerainly do not need 4 tanking pets, 1 is more than fine, past that 2nd is a back up 3rd one 4th one....

not sure if u can understand this concept

u dont need 4 Main Tanks, tanking same named all at once........................

could u, sure why not why would you

again are u killing as fast as you could w ease as u should

otherwise it comes to this is it fun, if so f it 5 chanters 1 cleric go for it what ever, u dont want advice u want someone to validate your interpretation of a good grp.

 

[supertimmy]

i know mage pets are the greatest things since vaginas for tanking but is it really true that a mage pet > raid geared plate tank?

it's just a hard pill for me to swallow. i've thought about adding a second group of toons but i had planned on using my current plate tank. maybe i should rethink that?

 

[SiegeTank]

i know mage pets are the greatest things since vaginas for tanking but is it really true that a mage pet > raid geared plate tank?

it's just a hard pill for me to swallow. i've thought about adding a second group of toons but i had planned on using my current plate tank. maybe i should rethink that?

I agree. A raid-geared plate tank handled by an actual human being is better than ANY pet. And THANK GOD for that.

 

[EQuser]

Just so you know Requiem of Time (slow) is SINGLE target not AoE. Still a bard is very very useful.

 

[PeteSampras]

Real tanks get discs and AE aggro. and paladin get group heals. so they will do better for those oh shit moments. otherwise it is a toss up. Remember, you get a ton of stuns in pet tank group. so the pets barely take any damage at all for heal purposes. and they are beefy anyway + rune spells that block X number of hits over and over.

 

[Dealings]

i raid rof expansion t1 and t2 all of ToV

some of the toughest mobs can and sometimes get tanked by pets

disagree, argue about aa discs buffs, what ever, unless u seen it youll have to take my word for it, unless others have seen it too and validate what im saying.

Are pets replacing real tanks, no, can they and do they step in, F yea

Waiting to see who types but but but but well your tanks must suck yea thats what it is, they arent really full t2 RoF geared max lvl max aa full rk3 buffs, their augs suck, it must be cause they arent veteran players yea that must be it, the healers suck must be PLd bots or something

pets are currently WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY overpowered, again u only need one to tank grp crap, (no not with your lvl 1 pos in some progression expansion locked server though, cant speak for those

 

[hoppy96pgtbs]

I have seen pet tanks do things that honestly pissed me off to the point of wanting to quit.

We would try a mob (Start of VoA) that was above our capabilities and wipe, several times. Then the chinese plat farmers would take the mob and pet tank it, slow as shit, with hardly any DPS, but they would kill it.

I've been told pets do tank a lot of raid content. Hell, maybe I should make like 15 more mages and win EQ.

 

[aspire2008]

Totally agree, they are way overpowered. Will soe ever do anything about it, probably not. Gearing up a tank takes quite a bit of time probably a 6-9 months with good set of augs, you can level up a mage to a 100 in 2-3 weeks, buy the bazaar gear and you are gtg, tanks on the other hand if you do the same thing , its not the same story.

Its even worse if your tank is a f2p toon, since you can't even use the augs, yet a f2p caster can function almost identical to gold account caster in group content.