Daybreak Upcoming Patch Targeting MMOBugs Users

[devestator]

Most of us in TL are convinced that DBG faked this vote. It's their poor management that's lead to this bullshit. We have tons over 600 characters in TL and thats not including all the alt guilds the boxers put their boxes in. I dont know how that vote could have made it to march.. the only explanation is that lockjaw was able to vote and the vote kept resetting everyday. Yet DBG ignores this and continues to let velious be in march. Most of us are convinced this was their ploy to promote phinny. I just find it unbelievable that casuals could outnumber people with 30-60 accounts ontop of the rest of our guild.

The vote only counts 1 time per account, it's not per character. So even if you voted with 10 characters on one account, only the last vote entered counts. I disagree with thinking DBG faked the vote. If y'all really have 600 unique accounts in the guild then I agree it is a large number but if you have say 2 or 3 guilds on the server like that, you would still not outweigh all the more casual players. I'd estimate the casual player accounts to be in the 5k+ range on the TLP servers. There are loads of people on the progression servers that want a slower progression because they aren't just powering through the content in 30 days. If Phinny is locked at 90 day expansions, that is probably enough reason for me to not go to it, even though I like the other features of it.

Personally, I feel like boxing has definitely gotten out of hand. And this coming from a guy that has spent the last 7 years of EQ play working on bots to help with boxing lol. I rarely get in a group on the TLP servers where at least one person isn't boxing, and a lot of times they don't even consider dropping their box for a player that is LFG. Not to mention the difficulty in even getting camps and such due to people running around with their own groups or 12+ mage bots annihilating everything of value. I don't really blame those people, they are simply taking advantage of a system. Get loots, sale loots, get kronos, sale kronos for real cash. I just wish it didn't infringe so much on other players for them to get the play style they desire. Those people aren't as apparently or as problematic on the live servers because the world is huge and the raid content is instanced. WIth a lower pop and more spread out pop, it doesn't impact others as much.

An instanced boxing allowed server might help to allow those people who want to play like that to play like that, but solo players can still get enjoyment too. It just depends on if they instance non raid content at all. If not, the problem will still exists with people boxing entire groups taking a lot of camps.

That said, I could see wanting to ban the usage of active hacks like ghostkill, warping, and such on Phinny, but I don't understand the push to ban MQ2 entirely. Is this DBG thinking that without MQ2 people wont box and it will make it easier for them to enforce no boxing? If they enforce no boxing, MQ2 really just becomes a utility for the map and the occasional automation of boring tasks like crafting. Neither of which is a huge impact on other players (unless you consider seeing when a named spawns a huge impact, that could be argued I suppose).

 

[eqmule]

People who argue they only use mq2 for the map can just use myseq. It works on all servers, doesn't take a genius to run and because there is no easy way to disable it, it will work on phinny as well...

We have a very simple choice here: mq2 on phinny which means detection of mq2 users on all the other servers, or no mq2 on phinny and we are left alone on the other servers.

It's easy to demand mq2 on phinny, but I imagine there would be a lot of complaints once the bannings begin and no mq2 update on patchdays cause we are too busy trying to crack their detection... I was there when the memcheckers where introduced and the mouse was disabled, mq was down for months, before we figured it out... Do you guys really want that again? Phinny will be dead before we can get it sorted and then all that is left is a smoking crater on the other servers cause without a working mq2 people won't have a reason to still play.

The detection used now is easy to defeat compared to what they could add if they knew we where going to circumvent it.
Updating mq2 is not a paid job, it's volunteering time, I can't pay rent or food to dedicate more than a few hours per month on what the donometer brings in... (More often than not I still spend days working on it even though I really shouldn't)

Anyway mq2 is open source, if the majority of its users really want a new mq2 dev that is willing to spend more time than me on it for free, then by all means, we can enable it on phinny and roll the dice.

 

[devestator]

Not sure if my last post came accross clearly. I wasn't intending to make it sound like I wanted to push for MQ2 on Phinny or questioning anyone's decision to not fight DBG on it. I was just questioning what DBG logic was on it to seek an arangement where we purposefully don't make a compile that works on Phinny. As I said in the previous post, I could understand DBG not wanting the active hacks on the server, but map and simple non obtrusive automation doesn't seem like it should really have an effect IMO. So that is why I was wondering if they fear their no boxing enforcement would be more difficult if MQ2 was around, or if it's just simpler for them to detect all of MQ2 rather than specific parts of MQ2. If they are detecting based on DLLs, it would seem they can detect based on specific portions... although I guess that does mean someone could simply compile an active hack into what would be considered a passive DLL in order to get around the system, maybe that is the reasoning for it?

I completely forgot about ShowEQ, if I decide to play on Phinny I probably will use that. And crafting automation and such can be achieved using something like autohotkey, not as well as with MQ2, but well enough to work lol.

I completely agree with eqmule's, Fry's and whoever else had a say in the decision to not fight DBG with implementing MQ2 on Phinny and having to play cat and mouse with detection. If it means they don't detect or at least don't act on detection on all other servers, then I'm all for it.

 

[freewilly]

As a part of this negotiation with DBG, was it negotiated to allow active hacks on the live servers? I try to stay away from them because I don't want to get banned, but I have been boxing in the same zone for the past year. I am too lazy to run through 6 zones to get somewhere else. Yes, I'm lazy, but I miss piggyzone and warp and if MQ2 is in a negotiating position, why not work these things out while we can.

 

[zdozbou]

My biggest curiosity is the sample of code from the eqgame.exe that was shown to us, showing the plugins it was detecting. Is that still in the test server exe right now, or did they push a new exe when they "disabled" that code shortly after the patch?

Will the phinny server have its own exe, or will all servers have the capability or detecting those plugins (with a behind the scenes verbal agreement that the capability won't be used)?

 

[eqmule]

First of all, we are not in a negotiating position at all, they could wipe us out any second they like, unless there is some billionaire here that has a team of lawyers and are ready to use those resources for years to come...

I will never negotiate with dbg for a free pass on active hacks like warp, etc. don't take me being a member on this site as any kind of endorsing active hacks, I'm here because mq2 users are here, not because I like active hacks, cause I don't.

2. Phinny will not have its own exe, and I expect the scan to only happen when logged into that server. If it happens on all servers we are going to think hard on how to deal with that, I'm not sure what the course of action is in that case yet, we will just have to see when phinny goes live.

 

[aspire2008]

It's either mq2 on phinny or mq2 on the rest of the servers, we can't have both long term.
We do phinny mq2, and we start a detection war which I don't have time for, no one pays me to write ring 0 drivers to avoid detection.
I hope there are many players that won't play on phinny unless there is a mq2 for it, and that's kinda the point, let phinny die quickly so we can get back to playing eq how it's meant to be played.

Next tlp will probably be boxing allowed with all raids instanced, but only if we can prove to dbg that boxers are in majority and want this...

IF phinny is a success it might very well be the end for boxers on all servers.
Both redguides and mmobugs understand this, which is why they won't release mq2 for that server. It would destroy them long term.
I hope all mq2 users will understand and support this decision as well cause it's the smart thing to do.

its a pretty simple answer. If MQ2 is allowed on phinny it could make DBG take a stance on MQ2 all together and hurt everyone that could care less about one server. As much as these TLP people like to think they do not out number the players on other servers.

I maybe naive to think so but I highly doubt they would kill off mq2 on live servers. They'd be shooting themselves in the head by doing soon. This game generates ALOT of revenue for them, so effectively doing so, would just destroy their revenue stream and make CN consider shutting down EQ altogether within a matter of 2 years.

Eqmule you may know more about it from the meetings but I think they've internally allowed mq2 for years because they know the above to be true.

 

[Cage9d9]

So I had the impression that eqmule and or fry had some line of communication open with DBG, is this not the case? Are we just rolling the dice anyway here hoping that if we don't do anything on Phinny that live and every other server will be left alone?

 

[PeteSampras]

So I had the impression that eqmule and or fry had some line of communication open with DBG, is this not the case? Are we just rolling the dice anyway here hoping that if we don't do anything on Phinny that live and every other server will be left alone?

eqmule talks to holly. youd have to ask him what all they talk about or with whom else he speaks.

 

[William12]

It's either mq2 on phinny or mq2 on the rest of the servers, we can't have both long term.
We do phinny mq2, and we start a detection war which I don't have time for, no one pays me to write ring 0 drivers to avoid detection.
I hope there are many players that won't play on phinny unless there is a mq2 for it, and that's kinda the point, let phinny die quickly so we can get back to playing eq how it's meant to be played.

Next tlp will probably be boxing allowed with all raids instanced, but only if we can prove to dbg that boxers are in majority and want this...

IF phinny is a success it might very well be the end for boxers on all servers.
Both redguides and mmobugs understand this, which is why they won't release mq2 for that server. It would destroy them long term.
I hope all mq2 users will understand and support this decision as well cause it's the smart thing to do.

its a pretty simple answer. If MQ2 is allowed on phinny it could make DBG take a stance on MQ2 all together and hurt everyone that could care less about one server. As much as these TLP people like to think they do not out number the players on other servers.

I maybe naive to think so but I highly doubt they would kill off mq2 on live servers. They'd be shooting themselves in the head by doing soon. This game generates ALOT of revenue for them, so effectively doing so, would just destroy their revenue stream and make CN consider shutting down EQ altogether within a matter of 2 years.

Eqmule you may know more about it from the meetings but I think they've internally allowed mq2 for years because they know the above to be true.

I'm with you I don't think they have the resources to play a cat and mouse game with detection every hour they spend trying to find MQ2 users is an hour they have to pay someone to do it when they should be doing other things to improve the game.


However I'm under the impression they asked for it to be disabled on Phinny and eqmule agreed. Last thing we want is them cracking down on every server even if the chance of that is low.

 

[aspire2008]

I see this as a mutual destruction scenario (US vs USSR cold war nuclear scare, but this time its MQ2 users vs DB!



They'd just loose massive amounts of revenue, most of which comes from marketplace and Krono sales, not sub's or expansion sales so much anymore. Most mq2 users box 3 or more accounts (just making this assumption based on people using 3 mercs to fill rest of group).

First thing I see happening is a lot of mq2 users quitting, causing the server population to die out, guilds will start folding next and not only that but the whole social dynamic of the game would change as a lot of players friends would quit, making those left questioning if they want to play a game that doesn't offer the social atmosphere they once had. Long term they'll have to do another server merge, and then CN will get involved once they see the annual revenue drop, finallly sunsetting EQ.

MQ2 is just in a symbiotic relationship with EQ, Daybreak has to know that by now or they need a reality check.

 

[Artemus]

There was an agreement with Daybreak and EQMule that no MQ2 release would work on Phinigel which we were planning on following. EQMule has been told by Daybreak that MQ2 detection code is only there for stopping people using MQ2 on Phinigel (No-Box Server), and wont enforce punishments on other servers for MQ2 usage unless it's for active hacks. As this code is only on test server, we can't see if it's only reporting for the Phinigel server at this stage.

Am I the only one who is hearing about this agreement for the first time?

 

[jamie75]

Daybreak Upcoming Targeting MMOBugs Users

There was an agreement with Daybreak and EQMule that no MQ2 release would work on Phinigel which we were planning on following. EQMule has been told by Daybreak that MQ2 detection code is only there for stopping people using MQ2 on Phinigel (No-Box Server), and wont enforce punishments on other servers for MQ2 usage unless it's for active hacks. As this code is only on test server, we can't see if it's only reporting for the Phinigel server at this stage.

Am I the only one who is hearing about this agreement for the first time?

I remember reading a post awhile back about them reaching out to EQmule


I think it is good there is dialogue

 

[SPASS]

POD CAST

She mentioned it on the podcast , livestream right before the launch of the new expantion.

 

[Buffalou]

New no-Box - Phingal

Hi All,

So why are we not going to BOYCOTT the server. The only ones that will go are new or maybe returning old players that like that style. If you have NO Base to start with then Daybreak should get message that they are screwing with most of the community that pays their Salary. If you lose money - you don't keep product for long.

I vote we Boycott

Buffalou

 

[Alexandra]

I like turtle's

 

[Chatwiththisname]

Hi All,

So why are we not going to BOYCOTT the server. The only ones that will go are new or maybe returning old players that like that style. If you have NO Base to start with then Daybreak should get message that they are screwing with most of the community that pays their Salary. If you lose money - you don't keep product for long.

I vote we Boycott

Buffalou

I don't see a need to boycott. It's a gold only server and they want it to be kept clean. Using Macroquest allows me to be entertained, the ones who want a clean game, where it is being monitored and enforced for programs like Macroquest will allow the game to be realistically cleaner. I still think that they are being quite nice as they could simply monitor for any hooks and ban anyone who hacks. It is part of the TOS that we not use Third party programs to manipulate the game, thus in using mq2 we are doing just that, and if for no other reason they could ban you without hopes of getting your account back. They understand that a large portion of the player base uses Mq2 and thus -allow- it to be used. /shrug.

 

[SiegeTank]

What all this really says is that IF DBG wanted to crack down hard on MQ WHEREVER it's being used, they COULD. They're incentivized AGAINST doing so, other than on a server specifically designed against multi-boxing because of the large amount of lost income they'll suffer from boxers and MQ-users losing or cancelling their accounts. DBG's motivation here would be entirely financial. I can't see them giving a shit about the anti-cheater obsessive attitudes demonstrated by some of the tight-asses who post against tolerance for MQ on DBG forums. DBG will pay them lip service but then go on to do whatever maximizes their income.

For the same reason I can't see them moving against multi-boxing seriously, either by banning even the use of multiple computers on this new server, or (never happen) against boxing in general on ALL servers. That's financial suicide. While I'm not inclined like some people here to think that the vast majority of active subs are boxers with their box and alt accounts, I think it goes without saying that if you eliminated everyone who maintains more than one account, EQ would take a financial hit so massive it might not be able to maintain whatever level of profitability would be needed to keep the game alive.

 

[Zero0003]

That would be correct. Which that would be a reason why we have not seen ban waves in awhile.

 

[JimJohnson]

Hi All,

So why are we not going to BOYCOTT the server. The only ones that will go are new or maybe returning old players that like that style. If you have NO Base to start with then Daybreak should get message that they are screwing with most of the community that pays their Salary. If you lose money - you don't keep product for long.

I vote we Boycott

Buffalou

Personally, a legit server is about the only way I would ever play EQ again. That would need radical detection and vengeance vs anyone using 3rd party software. They also need to have paid GMs on the server not some bitch ass guides, who can actually have a clue how to handle a situation. Even with raided instances and no MQ2 training going to be that much higher. Game might post a slight challenge again.


You can go to any server you want and do as you please, but frankly MQ2 has to many fuckbags who just want to shit on others while they go about doing what they enjoy in life while automation is going on in game. That automation turns into a money producer and shit just goes down hill.


You want to boycott JUST FOR THIS, go for it. Just shows your entitled ignorance. Lot more shit in the world worth boycotting than a video game that takes away godmode.