Classic MM Nerf / Discussion

icebox11

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http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?&topic_id=155683
(link to the hot-topic)

Can see Absor's first release of what's up.

Dev-Negreth (18th page in)

First off. I have not read this whole thread yet. I have read other designers comments, and some of the first page so far. So I am not ignoring other players comments, I am just stopping to make a comment at this stage.

I do not want to give more details until later today. We have an additional 2pm Meeting about this, but I wanted to address this in general terms, with some specific comments.

One specific comment, we will NOT be talking about specific items at this point. We may later, but for now we will not be.

We will only be evaluating the items that drop and are unlocked by doing the raids. The items from the three missions, and that are unlocked by doing the missions, are fine as they are. Their sell-back will be reduced, but that is the only change that we currently have planned for them. That may change, but as I write this, we do not see the need to make any changes other than to the sell-back.

Our current plans before this meeting (the meeting may change this) is to

#1 upgrade in many elements what we had planned for gear for underfoot.
#2 Take the Raid gear to a step between the top tier SoD group gear, and the bottom tier Underfoot Group Gear.

On the general comment of mudflation, there is still mudflation involved. It is inevitable.

The mudflation would have been HUGE though if we left this gear as is, in order to continue to have the gap we currently have between group and raid.

BUT what we are doing is moving MORE (not all) of the general group stuff in Underfoot to the "75%" of raid gear range.

No the numbers will not be EXACTLY 75% It is just a general soft target, and there is some variance. Additionally some stats will be closer where we have essentially hit or are almost at caps. Some may still be farther away. This is not going to be an absolute mathematical rule. It is just a trend.

This move does allow us to have this tune down of the MM raid gear have a better upgrade over the top SoD group gear.

Augments will be evaluated as well, *BUT* since we are not doing "raid" augments anymore... it is entirely possible that these will be left as is, because they are probably already in the "group" range they should be. But I will not promise at this point that they will be untouched.

As for aug slots in the items, we will consider leaving them as is. I will want to have a team discussion before I commit.
 
appreciate the summary! I saw that massive thread and grew tired after 2 pages.
 
lol I know, it's np, I've read a bunch of it but after so much of the same crap being thrown back and forth I look for the Dev highlights, were more Dev posts but this was the most informative, they are still deciding what exactly to do and go about things

Will post if I see anything else worth mentioning, anyone else can do the same.
 
all i got to say is wow! crying people everywhere.
 
The internet is serious business, you guys. There's a mildly popular, over-the-hill MMO at stake. That's no laughing matter.
 
If this post devolves into the bitch-fest that post became, it will get locked fast. Making fun of them is fine, discussing the nerf is fine, keep it at that and tread lightly.
 
they took er gear! rabble rabble rabble
 
If this post devolves into the bitch-fest that post became, it will get locked fast. Making fun of them is fine, discussing the nerf is fine, keep it at that and tread lightly.

You highly overestimate the bitchiness of this board's membership when compared to the official EQ boards, haha.

People who spend their time exploiting a game tend tend to be a little less anal about their gameplay than people who play it because without it they'd probably go clinically insane.

Also, we expect SOE to get it wrong. So the overpowered gear and subsequent nerf aren't surprises or outrages to us like they would be to anyone who expects (or demands) that SOE get it right.

That said I'm totally behind you laying the smack down on anyone who proves me wrong. Sheriff Kodilynn FTW.
 
They need to start over with this idea.

The MMs should have a reward, but the risk v reward it currently has is retarded at best. They should add augs (type 3, 4, 7/8, etc) and maybe some unique clickies.

I do like the idea of smaller raids aimed towards 12-18 well geared group toons...it would definitely help with the smaller/family guilds (and MQ boxers!) without adding the ability to skip content.
 
We will only be evaluating the items that drop and are unlocked by doing the raids. The items from the three missions, and that are unlocked by doing the missions, are fine as they are. Their sell-back will be reduced, but that is the only change that we currently have planned for them,

im not sure i like that part.... shit ive only gotten like 27ish brews so far and its took some time to get that..... and the stuff i can buy so far would not even be worth it... so it almost seems like there going to turn it into any other mm.. in a few months it will be dead content? of course i havnt seen past what 40 or so brews buys so maybe i just done know
 
Lorrien wrote:

I think what most are frustrated with at this point in the ambiguity. The rewards were over-powered ... fine. Nerf inc ... fine. When? And perhaps what is truly makin people upset, is how much? It's not a matter of this stuff is no longer l33t. It's a matter of is this stuff even worth bothering with at all for the next (?) weeks until they "fix" it?

All we have to go on at this point are vague assertations by the dev team that the gear will be nerfed down to "very good group gear" and a bunch of wild speculation by everyone else.

Replied to by Dev-Elidroth

Absolutely understandable. We're being vague intentionally so as not to lead people to incorrect assumptions which will only upset them even more.

Simply put, we want to make the changes ONCE, make them correctly, and move on. It takes time. Several of us are working overtime to get these changes done as quickly as possible. This is NOT a cry for sympathy. We made the mess, we now have to do the work to fix it.

Myself, I'm working on fixing as many of the actual bugs I can find in the missions. The Harm Touch exploit has already been fixed in code and tested on beta. The data side of the problem has also been fixed. I'll be here most of the night resolving the class issues (such as Rangers getting outdoor only spells when all the instances are indoors), as well as any other bugs I can find while pouring over the forum threads for info.

If you have any info with respect to bugs in the missions, no matter how trivial you think it may be, PLEASE PM me so I can look into it. But PLEASE.. keep them on topic to the mission bugs.

Aristo and Ngreth are working on the items. I'll let one of them or Absor speak to the actual changes to the items, as that's not my area of specialty. Absor is working on a full information update as to what our final decision is to be on these changes, but I don't know exactly when that will be posted.
 
they should just make it so you cant buy the raid items at all put a rec lvl on the number of people in the raid to 12 and can even extend the raid lockout time. they already fixed the HT bug they said its not live yet thank god lol.
 
I hear the gear is gonna be raid crystallos lvl which isnt bad by any means.
 
Dev-Elidroth

Just FYI.. here's an update on the status of the bugs in the Classic Missions.

Harm Touch - The bug allowing SK's to use an unintended level of Harm Touch has been fixed, both in code, and in the data that allowed it to refresh upon death. This was inconsistent with the higher levels of Harm Touch. Lay on Hands has also had the refresh upon death removed.

Lady Vox - She has always been able to be pulled to the zone in. However, in this case because of the lack of penalty for dying over and over, she has been leashed to her room to provide an encounter more in the spirit of the original.

Ranger - Players are given many 'outdoor only' spells when all missions are indoors. Really this was intentional, to persist the flavor and feel of the class, moreso than giving them pure usability. Possibly not a happy answer, but it's how it is none the less.

Paladin - Cannot make LoH hotkey. This is fixed. After the patch, players choosing the Paladin will be able to make an LoH hotkey. Basically this was just a typo in the data.

Shaman - No haste spells provided. Not sure how this was overlooked, but as of the patch, Shaman will be granted Alacrity as their haste spell. I was going to put Quickness in as well, but then came to my senses.

Enchanter - Currently able to charm any NPC in the missions except for the flagged bosses. This really isn't a bug, as Allure has always worked on NPC's up to level 51. This will not be changing. I MAY give it a greater chance to fail/break, but I'm undecided on that one.

All Classes - Hand to Hand damage is greater than the weapon damage. For Monks, this is a non-issue, as their hands are 13/22 weapons already. For the rest of the classes, this is being changed. In fact there will be a lot of skill changes in order to bring them down to levels appropriate for the character level.

Bards - Yeah.. I saved this class for last. Bards have no instrument skills. In fact, Bards have the Brass skill, but none of the rest. This is a tough one and not likely something we can fix before the patch. Basically, the Monster Mission system was never intended to directly mimic the PC classes, so this is a 1st. Since these templates were designed to allow players to become NPC's, they were given a rather limited skill set as the environment and abilities could be carefully controlled to give the players the intended play experience. The PC classes of course have a VERY large skill set, and unfortunately, Bard instrument skills fell into this gap area. I will talk to coding tomorrow to see what the ramifications of changing this is, but I wouldn't expect anything in the short term. Who knows though.. Sklug is always surprising me!

Grouping Issues - Auto Failure. If a player joins or leaves the group while inside the mission it auto-fails. This has been fixed. Player level, and not template level will always be used to evaluate the task level.

Anyway... back to work. Still have lots to do.
 
Is the above a hotfix? Or is this going in game in October.
 
I post what they post, so your guess is as good as mine. Although, I don't believe anything is happening until the patch that is coming later on.
 
I wish monk fists were 13 / 22 back in the day. The guy dosn't know what hes talking about there lol. Monk fists have been changed drastically since classic era, and while at lvl 50 now they might be 13 / 22. At lvl 50 in classic they were more like 12 / 27.. they didn't make it to 15 / 25 till level 65 in pop.

Monks are doing way more dps than they should be fore the era hehe. Even though they were probably still the top melee dps of the era. Before rogues got their minimum backstab damage.
 
We're being vague intentionally so as not to lead people to incorrect assumptions


Think he will ever re read this and realize how much of a jackass quote that is?
 
I wish monk fists were 13 / 22 back in the day. The guy dosn't know what hes talking about there lol.

I bet 99% of the coders where no where around EQ when it was just EQ/Kunark. The fucks would know anything about having 50+ people from lvl 40-50 sitting at naggy and vox for 6hrs waiting for more people or buffs. There was no way to buff a group without being in it to a cleric/shaman/enc rotation was needed.

Monks h2h didn't get uber until Velious when 1.0 + fungi tunic was the best that ever happened to a monk. Besides a master Wu's trance stick at lvl 35.
 
On the note of the nerf, I'm guessing this happened on all servers.

They just depopped PoK in order to remove the raid items from OMM. The augs are still there but no raid quality items are purchasable anymore.