Starting from Scratch -- Group Critique

[B33gP3wp]

I have recently returned to EQ after a long absence. After doing some research on the official forums, class specific boards and this fine forum, I have thought about trying the following five box team, but wanted to get some feedback from the veterans on this board before pushing ahead:

Paladin
Bard
Zerker
Beastlord
Necro
Cleric Merc

My goals with this term are as follows (i) try and create a relatively high dps team to level and gain AA quickly and (ii) keep armor overlap as minimal as possible due to starting fresh and (iii) as an end result, have one or two raid desireable classes in the team.

However, I was not sure if perhaps inserting a Ranger instead of the Necro might be better in terms of boosting the group's AA capabilities with headshot. Replacing the Zerker with a Ranger would probably make the most sense, but the Zerker is one class that I was not in the game when I was playing so it seemed like a fun idea to include it in the group.

Also, if I wanted to extend this team to a six box team, could I get away with replacing the Cleric Merc with a Shaman or Druid (relying upon Pally heals, RB procs and Shaman/Druid healing)? The Shaman probably has more synergy with the team, but having ports/evac/atk debuffs seemed like interesting perks as well.

Appreciate any input that you might have.

 

[TAR2]

Tank = Warrior (merc can be used and are good till t4 named)
Healer = Cleric (merc is fine)
CC = Enchanter (bards are to hard to bot, never seem to work correctly)
DPS = Wizard (ports and snare as well)
DPS = Mage + pet
Backup healer = Shaman, utility

This is a good group and what I use a lot. I switch out the wizzy with my monk every now and then when I need a puller, but this group does anything up to end game content.

 

[Dealings]

Paladin
Bard
Zerker
Beastlord
Necro
Cleric Merc

1st off Paly tank is the worst tank class especially early on, they do get better at higher end (aa and gear) but till then its gonna suck

bards make any grp better and they are for me anyways the best pullers in game bar none, lowering the need for cc and if cc is needed it can be done (i do it w one hotkey :stopcast, fade, aemez (i rarely use single and if its only 2 mobs i have a hot key for dirge if it really is needed to be mezd)

zerker best dps

beastlords are incredible dps now plus buffs and their pets can tank t4 grp mobs

necro for me its a great solo class in grp their dps depends on how shitty your grp is (high dps grp = not enough time to cast all dots and let them do their magic)

merc cler (you will need some sort of healer) druid can be main healer shm too

all this info is relevant to the lvl aa and spells of the grp

a bunch of low lvl toons the info will vary


that all said bst necro can merc up duo and do named at the right lvl w the right grp gear

 

[dulak]

I always liked using the following:
Monk w/ Cleric Merc
Shaman w/ Tank Merc
Or:
SK w/ Cleric Merc
Shaman w/ caster dps merc

My favorite though is the Shaman/Monk Combo.

 

[William12]

I haven't played in a year, but I always went with SK, Ber, Bard, Shm. You can either use a cleric for backup healing or another dps as the 5th and my 6th was another dps or enc for AE Mez.

 

[JimJohnson]

War/Sk
Bard
Zerker
Shm
Wiz
CLR

You can fully automate that with bard doing pull/buffs/dps or mez if he pulls bad
Wiz for the ports, yea you have guild lobby what not but nothing like a wiz binding and sending its whole group 20 seconds from a camp location. Without /zone a wiz is worth it.

 

[hoppy96pgtbs]

I have recently returned to EQ after a long absence. After doing some research on the official forums, class specific boards and this fine forum, I have thought about trying the following five box team, but wanted to get some feedback from the veterans on this board before pushing ahead:

Paladin
Bard
Zerker
Beastlord
Necro
Cleric Merc

My goals with this term are as follows (i) try and create a relatively high dps team to level and gain AA quickly and (ii) keep armor overlap as minimal as possible due to starting fresh and (iii) as an end result, have one or two raid desireable classes in the team.

However, I was not sure if perhaps inserting a Ranger instead of the Necro might be better in terms of boosting the group's AA capabilities with headshot. Replacing the Zerker with a Ranger would probably make the most sense, but the Zerker is one class that I was not in the game when I was playing so it seemed like a fun idea to include it in the group.

Also, if I wanted to extend this team to a six box team, could I get away with replacing the Cleric Merc with a Shaman or Druid (relying upon Pally heals, RB procs and Shaman/Druid healing)? The Shaman probably has more synergy with the team, but having ports/evac/atk debuffs seemed like interesting perks as well.

Appreciate any input that you might have.

Paladin
Bard
Zerker
Beastlord
Necro Ranger
Cleric Merc

I would definitely try to stick a shammy in there somewhere, potentially in place of the Beastlord. I am not very familiar with beastlords so I may be wrong. Shammy is great in this situation for the utility, buffs, debuffs, Ghetto CC, backup heals and solid melee augmentation with Lion/leopard etc.

A ranger in this setup can help tremendously catching up on AA's with HS, plus ranger buffs are great in a melee group environment.

Or!!! You could totally switch it up and go with:

Pally
Chanter
Wizzy
Mage
Shammy
Cleric

Chanters are great in a group of casters with Mana resurgence + Mana resurgence Aura, causes nukes to keep striking repeatedly. There are also some Debuffs that probably not a lot of people know about unless they have played a chanter. If you use nightmare stasis on a named mob until it proc's Deep Sleep, that is a great Debuff. Minus 15% to hit with all skills, on top of that, hit them with Mental Contortion:
1: Decrease All Skills Damage Modifier by 10%
4: Decrease Hitpoints by 1080 per tick
6: Decrease Chance to Hit by 25% with All Skills

Which puts the namer at minus 40% to hit with all skills, with this combo and the mob slowed, ur shammy pet can tank T4 namers

Wizzy is amazing in a group with chanter, better make sure the pally can hold aggro or the wiz is dead more than alive. Plus ports, w/out /zone wizzys are awesome.

Mage pet makes a good backup tank, or main tank. It disturbs me how great these things can tank end game mobs with the proper aa's. Mages are also beautiful in a group with enchanter.

 

[Xeniaz]

There are a ton of named encounters that you will never be able to pull off if you go with a merc as your healer. I would go with a druid or a cleric for heals rather than use a merc. Also, a druid or cleric (with AAs) will far outperform that merc in every category later on in the game. Early on it doesn't matter so much. Just as an example, some mobs have AEs that you cannot cure, or it silences the whole group. The cleric merc would cure that debuff and fuck you over. There is no logic in place on the mercs to prevent that sort of situation.

 

[jarori43]

I'd have to say

SK > pulling, fd good tank
Monk > DPS hello?!
Shaman> Slows, grp heals, dps!
for sure thoes 3 TOPS

Then you can add

Enchanter> Haste, Mana regen etc
Mage> uber dps can offtank (w pet)
Merc > cleric

easy~

 

[Dealings]

of all the toons I play I find the least desirable

paly (never invested much of any time in those)
chanter dont need the mana regen and haste, for those I can just buff and log
shaman slows arent end all for me or back up heals same as shaman buff w it and log

I can make most grp make ups (caster or melee grps and or mix)

anything w a bard rocks imo
tanking (warr sk mage pet bst) in that order for me, i havent tried to make another class tank (monk zerk ranger bard)

dps order for me zerk wiz monk/bst (bst sustains for me monk is nice burst) mage/ranger

In the end the bottom line is you can make alot of combos work for you, it helps if you like that combo and you are good at it

Killing mob A in 20 seconds with one grp vs killing it in 21 seconds is not enough to pick one set up over another.

 

[spin]

I have been doing two different groups lately, with my Wife and Two late teen sons.

84 Warrior
84 Beastlord
84 Wiz (bot macro)
82 Cleric (Clericbot Macro)
76 Warrior (Son)
76 Necro (Son)

Having my son pull with his necro is nice for breaking up things, and getting the pulls taken care of. DPS is fine, mobs die pretty fast.
An area we clear regularly takes us about 15 minutes to clear the entire area.

The BEST DPS group we have had yet through is as follows:

84 Warrior
Cleric Bot from Warrior
84 Beastlord
84 Wiz (bot macro)
DPS Mele Bot from Wizard
82 Cleric (Clericbot Macro)

The same area we clear out in 6 minutes. I pull with the Warr.. and am pulling 5 or 6 at a time. Yes light blues, with one or two blues, but that number of high 70s mobs is managable with healing aggro.
The Bot macro keeps the Wizzy shredding DPS wise. If he gets aggro nothing lives long enough to get through his shield.

AA on the level 84 toons is low 300s this week. Cleric is around 200.
We decided to stop at the end of 84 and grind out a thousand to 1500 AA. Then we will go ahead and keep leveling. Going with leveling.. and no AA were gonna get our asses handed to us.

 

[B33gP3wp]

Really appreciate the great advice provided in this thread.

Based on this feedback, I am considering a Wizard instead of the Necro/Ranger to gain evac/ports, but was wondering if people thought this convenience outweighed the ability of the Ranger to headshot to boost the AA of the low level group.

If I went with a Wizard, I would probably shift my tank class to a SK so perhaps I could use that class to help boost the AA of the group once it is able to swarm, but my understanding is that it takes significant AAs and gear to be able to do that (thankfully, I do have a couple of accounts that have the grandfathered in RAF bonus)

Dealings, in terms of your monk vs. beastlord analysis, do you feel that perhaps the Beastlord ADPS added to the zerker would help mitigate the loss of burst by going with the Beastlord over the Monk? I had leaned toward the Beastlord mainly becuase it provided good sustained DPS, provided 2 of the 3 key ADPS classes to Zerker performance and also had mana regen, but perhaps I undervalued the burst capabilities of the Monk in group play.

 

[spin]

Im not sure of Zerker DPS, but my wife's Beast not including her pet is doing 1200 DPS in fights constantly. At worst she is doing 800-950 for a time.. then she starts critting and her dps climbs right over 1200.
This is level 84 with around 400 AA, nicely geared for that level.

 

[Dealings]

max bst grp geared is doing low 20k dps on a regular basis

monk bursts depending on discs that are up

if you have a zerk bst goes great w it, bst and pet can both off tank and pet can tank named up to t4

i love my monk and I love my bst

for showing off once in a while I pull out monk for steady workhorse and great dps I go bst

raid geared bsts have been rumored to be out of control (wicked dps)

 

[JimJohnson]

The benefit for Zerker is they are easier to gear up and be dps way before BST.


Later on ports/evac > HS

 

[Dealings]

its not an either bst or zerker thing

zerker is best dps augmented by bard and further augmented by bst

bst onto itself is great dps but no its not zerker dps

 

[Merle]

I LOVE reading these kind of threads, very neat to hear everyone's combos and their justification for them. I was in a similiar situation to you about a month or 2 ago, just coming back to the game, had several accounts, and trying to figure out a good combo. I have mostly settled on:

SK
Shaman
Bard
Berserker
Rogue
Monk

This is a really entertaining combo, but I have to say it all hinges on how well you can play or bot the Bard. I bought Devastator's Bard macro and it more than anything makes my combo work. Now granted, my toons are only level 80, but I have been grinding AAs as I level. According to MMO's DPS plugin, the SK with 1400ish AAs does roughly 1800 DPS, with the Ber (1000AAs) doing 2000 DPS or so usually. The rogue and monk do comparable DPS (about 1500), but they also only have 600ish AAs. I admit I have no idea if this is good or bad DPS at 80, or even if the DPS plugin is accurate, but I can tell you its damn fun to see Panther Procing constantly. I could probably squeeze more DPS out of the Team by being more diligent using Poisons, etc, but they grind so well with what I have been doing, I have not yet bothered.

My Favorites & Why (keep in mind, from a lvl80 perspective):

SK - Love this class as a tank. I generally use 2handers and the DPS while tanking is a nice perk. Their self healing seems OP as hell to me. Even at level 80, I see Lifetap procs crit heal well over 5k. Make sure you do your Epic 1.5 at least, as the healing from that clicky effect will save your melee group alot of times. Also, I should mention that before I quit, I played a Necro main, so the FD pulling/spliting was already comfortable for me.

Bard - Before I got Dev's Bard macro, I almost blew up this combo, in favor of a Caster group centered around an Enchanter. With Dev's Mac, he can keep packs of 4-5 Mezzed with ease, and still do Melee DPS thats not too far behind my Rogue and Monk. I should mention that he has 1800ish AA, to their 600ish, but still, his melee damage does not suck at 80. His Damage Shields, Mana Regen song, 25% Overhaste Aura, and Melee Proc song, in addition to his DPS and Mezzing make him an All-Star IMO.

Berserker - Starts out as pretty meh DPS, so don't expect to immediately get blown away, but when I hit lvl80 and bought a lvl80 weapon from the Baz, I was really glad I stuck to him. Like I mentioned he does have 1k AAs, which is more than the Rogue/Monk, but several of those are not DPS AAs. I do cycle some of his Disc and AA damage abilities, but not all, so I know I could definately squeeze even more out of him. They have fucktons of DPS cool downs, and even a great deal of Defensive ones as well. With a Bard and Shaman giving ADPS, these guys rock. Without those 2, probably alot less impressive.

Shaman - I am probably wrong, but it seems to me that all the Priest classes are similiar in quality with their heals these days. I realize that the Shaman is probably the weakest healer technically, but I think the margin is waaaaaay smaller than it was way back when. (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong!) In terms of other skills, the Shaman is perfect for my group. Perfect buffs for Melee, and seeing Panther procing on 2 pets, and 5 toons is flat out awesome. The Lingering Sloth line of buffs are a great luxury for your tank. I do admit some concern that having him as my only healer will hold me back some at max level, but we will see. He sure is fun for now!

Concerns:

Monk - I picked the Monk because that was my main way back before they were nerfed really hard pre-PoP expansion. (that sucked didn't it!!) I also took Monk over a Ranger since I thought I was already way too heavy on Chain classes, but since it seems armor works off a sort of token system, maybe this is no big deal?

Rogue - I remember these guys being the kings of Melee DPS (DPS in general actually) but so far it seems they are actually behind Berserkers. The Sneaking/Hiding thing is nice, but not game breaking. Thinking ahead, I believe he'll be handy for making Poisons for the rest of the crew, but he doesn't have to be played in the group for that. I have considered replacing him with a Ranger to pile up even more Melee buffs. Thoughts on this?

Ranger - I really like the idea of Headshot. I consider bumping out the Rogue or Monk for one often, but so far I have not.

Bst - I also have considered one of these, but I am not sure how much they overlap with what my Shaman already does. If content ever forces me to go with a Cleric to keep up with heals, I'll probably bring in a Bst in place of the Rogue or Monk at the same time.

Sorry for the Wall of Text, but if you made it to the end, thanks!

 

[noc]

Drop the cleric merc, make a cleric, Reluctant Benevolance and Shining Armor on a Pally is pure win.

 

[Dealings]

he can keep packs of 4-5 Mezzed with ease, and still do Melee DPS thats not too far behind my Rogue and Monk

that implies your rogue and monk totally suck btw
while its nice to keep 5 mobs mezzed your not gonna be doing that w bunch of 95+ yellows (though i have done that), at lower lvls it doesnt matter they dont hit that hard and between sk and bard training yourself i imagine is a choice not an accident.

zerker dps doesnt get freakish unless u have a bard in grp and goes up further w a bst and of course shm

bst overlap with what Shaman is a non issue bst isnt a shaman replacement hes there to dps ( also like i said bst can tank and off tank at same time), being able to slow mobs and throw a shitty focus and haste are just perks

 

[William12]

My best DPS group was

SK
Ber
Ber
Ber
Shm
Bard

but fuck not everyone can get 3 raid geared zerkers with max AAs.