Multi Level Marketing Businesses (MLM)

[Nooch]

About a year ago I joined a MLM type business and I have become pretty successful in it. During the course of that year I was approached by a many other people to get involved in their "type" of MLM and it hasn't been all it was "cracked" up to be.

I was curious to know if anyone has ever been or is involved in this type or business and if they are being successful with it?

If you ARE successful with it, I'd like to get more information about it!!

Let me know about your experiences, Thanks!!!!!

 

[CapriiRecords]

They're scams. The top people make money exploiting those at lower levels, it's the fundamental structure of the organization. I have yet to hear of an example of someone getting in and making money - then again I don't take them seriously so I don't pay a lot of attention.

 

[PumpThump]

I'm not sure I'd say they are scams, but they are pretty darn close. The only way to profit and make a living is to put a ton of time into recruiting people to work beneath you, not by actually selling whatever product it is. The more people you have working beneath you the more your monthly income gets, but those people are getting crap for money unless they get more people working beneath them. Then, the people at the top are making bank off training seminars and starter boxes that are sold to the new people getting recruited underneath everyone else.

I'd say that most (probably 75% and higher) of the money is made by taking it directly out of the pockets of those supposedly working for you through seminars, mandatory training, and monthly sales contributions. The rest of the money comes from selling overpriced product to friends/family who want to support you and/or to strangers who don't know any better because you have good charisma and a sales pitch.

 

[JimJohnson]

They're scams. The top people make money exploiting those at lower levels, it's the fundamental structure of the organization. I have yet to hear of an example of someone getting in and making money - then again I don't take them seriously so I don't pay a lot of attention.

You do realize that the top level people invest time, the people who do not. Well they don't make money. It is a business of people who are outgoing and willing to go out and get what they want. Its sales nothing more.

That aside, I wouldn't mind hearing the pitch at least. So shoot me a pm.

 

[JimJohnson]

I'm not sure I'd say they are scams, but they are pretty darn close. The only way to profit and make a living is to put a ton of time into recruiting people to work beneath you, not by actually selling whatever product it is. The more people you have working beneath you the more your monthly income gets, but those people are getting crap for money unless they get more people working beneath them. Then, the people at the top are making bank off training seminars and starter boxes that are sold to the new people getting recruited underneath everyone else.

I'd say that most (probably 75% and higher) of the money is made by taking it directly out of the pockets of those supposedly working for you through seminars, mandatory training, and monthly sales contributions. The rest of the money comes from selling overpriced product to friends/family who want to support you and/or to strangers who don't know any better because you have good charisma and a sales pitch.

I would look at it more like a chance to open a business with low cost and all the research already done. All you have to do is invest time to build your personal company of friends/family/strangers that want to make a few extra 100$ a month. While doing that you would want to find 2-3 people who want to really make money so they break off and start up new areas.

The real work is sorting through all the bullshit to see if its a good or bad MLM scheme.

 

[PumpThump]

The real work is sorting through all the bullshit to see if its a good or bad MLM scheme.

That's the key right there, and maybe I've only ever experienced bad ones myself.

I just don't like how a lot of them force you to treat your friends/family as your source of potential clients. I'm sure many businesses start out that way, but I've never felt that kind of constant pressure as I have from people in these MLM groups. They can get really overzealous, which is understandable given it is their primary source of income. I had to remove myself from friends in the past when 99% of our face-to-face time turned into sales pitches. It starts out with the same pitch along the lines of "you need this product for your daily life, and you are an intelligent person so you should see how buying it from me will benefit from you!", then it degrades into taking shots at your intelligence if you don't want to go along with them, and then you either give in or distance yourself.

Maybe I'm biased...

 

[hawthorne]

Way back around 18 or so years ago, wife and I were in Amway for about a year. I wouldn't say it's a scam but what I would say is that it's not for you if you are not outgoing. The time and energy required to push yourself up to each level is more than it might seem from the outside. To reach something like diamond, their millionaire club, you have to have either built it all yourself, getting hundreds of people involved, or you have to have lucked into getting people just as motivated as you at several levels of the business.

Ultimately we got out of it because I am not outgoing and not into cold calling and cold contacting people. Just not something I am good at. I am not a salesman and you have to be with a company like that. They make pretty good products though. No one wants to buy them however so you are really either buying them yourself, or inviting people into your business just to have them buy for themselves.

Hard work and a salesman like persona will get you far in it though.

 

[JimJohnson]

The real work is sorting through all the bullshit to see if its a good or bad MLM scheme.

That's the key right there, and maybe I've only ever experienced bad ones myself.

I just don't like how a lot of them force you to treat your friends/family as your source of potential clients. I'm sure many businesses start out that way, but I've never felt that kind of constant pressure as I have from people in these MLM groups. They can get really overzealous, which is understandable given it is their primary source of income. I had to remove myself from friends in the past when 99% of our face-to-face time turned into sales pitches. It starts out with the same pitch along the lines of "you need this product for your daily life, and you are an intelligent person so you should see how buying it from me will benefit from you!", then it degrades into taking shots at your intelligence if you don't want to go along with them, and then you either give in or distance yourself.

Maybe I'm biased...

Yea getting hard closed by friends is stupid. You are basically playing baseball, its one of the only other jobs when you can strike out 70% of the time and still be doing great. You only need 2-3 people say yes out of 10. The problem is you might need to ask 200 to get the first 50 people.

 

[rob]

They're scams. The top people make money exploiting those at lower levels, it's the fundamental structure of the organization. I have yet to hear of an example of someone getting in and making money - then again I don't take them seriously so I don't pay a lot of attention.

You do realize that the top level people invest time, the people who do not. Well they don't make money. It is a business of people who are outgoing and willing to go out and get what they want. Its sales nothing more.

That aside, I wouldn't mind hearing the pitch at least. So shoot me a pm.

If you're into that sort of thing, my friend (a personal trainer) recently started selling Vemma (Vemma, Building A Solid Nutritional Foundation Is Vital To Your Overall Health).

Lots of redflags on that site, though. "Clinically studied" ? Does that mean they put on a white robe and looked at it in a cup for awhile?

Also claims to raise your immunity and has a "Adhere to extensive manufacturing and testing standards". Does this include the 5 second rule?

That said, it looks like a solid, but expensive product. I'm sure it would have been great when you broke your jaw!

 

[SiegeTank]

I like the "stuff envelopes at home" business a lot better! I sent this outfit in the Ukraine $500 in bitcoins about 2 months ago and I'm waiting for them to send me 100 labels to stick on envelopes. Then I just send them back the labeled envelopes for mailing and I get back a thousand bucks! So they tell me!

Then I'm gonna invest that grand in those "limited edition" gold-plated coins from "The Official U.S. Mintte" where if you order within 10 minutes they provide free shipping.

TV and radio is a vast wasteland of scams, semi-scams and borderline-scams. Even if the hardworking "early" entrants into MLM make money, do you really want to get rich essentially ripping off other people? I listen to conservative talk radio, basically just for something to listen to when I get bored with my own CD selection, and I get so aggravated by their commercials---selling beauty creams, diet pills, male potency pills, all of which rely on banging your credit card every month, making it brutally hard to cancel your future orders and making health promises while claiming that the product is not designed to treat any ailments. It nauseates me no end that radio hosts who "look out for the folks" allow these snake oil salesmen to pitch these same folks, with the appearance of being legit because they advertise on their show.

Unfortunately, whoever said "There's a sucker born every minute" is right but he should have added right after that "There's two con men born to rip off that sucker every minute."

PS I just saw the above mention of "clinically studied." Actually the bullshit term used a lot is "CLINICALLY PROVEN"! And if they're not sure it's been "clinically proven" they like to say "studies suggest."

My own private laboratory "studies suggest" that if any product is advertised on TV or radio and requires a credit card to get a supposedly free sample, or if it's advertised that you can get 2 for the originally advertised price for 1, or if you have to order within 10 minutes to get free shipping (especially when the ad runs constantly so what the hell does "within ten minutes" mean in that context?) then hold onto your wallet because you're at risk to be scammed.

 

[seductive_words]

Honestly you're better off joining a successful company and working your way up. If you put the same amount of hard work and dedication in to it you'll probably be making a $100k+ salary within 5 years (plus all the nice benefits that come with that)

The other option is getting a loan to start your own legit business selling a legit product that doesn't require hard closes, cold calls, and kissing a blarney stone to sell ketchup to a woman in white gloves. The product speaks for itself.

 

[JimJohnson]

They're scams. The top people make money exploiting those at lower levels, it's the fundamental structure of the organization. I have yet to hear of an example of someone getting in and making money - then again I don't take them seriously so I don't pay a lot of attention.

You do realize that the top level people invest time, the people who do not. Well they don't make money. It is a business of people who are outgoing and willing to go out and get what they want. Its sales nothing more.

That aside, I wouldn't mind hearing the pitch at least. So shoot me a pm.

If you're into that sort of thing, my friend (a personal trainer) recently started selling Vemma (Vemma, Building A Solid Nutritional Foundation Is Vital To Your Overall Health).

Lots of redflags on that site, though. "Clinically studied" ? Does that mean they put on a white robe and looked at it in a cup for awhile?

Also claims to raise your immunity and has a "Adhere to extensive manufacturing and testing standards". Does this include the 5 second rule?

That said, it looks like a solid, but expensive product. I'm sure it would have been great when you broke your jaw!

I am already actually already enrolled in vemma, I love the products, if you use them it does give you a nice energy boost.

 

[CapriiRecords]

They're scams. The top people make money exploiting those at lower levels, it's the fundamental structure of the organization. I have yet to hear of an example of someone getting in and making money - then again I don't take them seriously so I don't pay a lot of attention.

You do realize that the top level people invest time, the people who do not. Well they don't make money. It is a business of people who are outgoing and willing to go out and get what they want. Its sales nothing more.

That aside, I wouldn't mind hearing the pitch at least. So shoot me a pm.

I actually think it is basically the exact opposite. The whole idea of MLM is predicated on people under you doing the work. You don't make money from the products you sell, you basically break even, or perhaps a small percentage of profit. You make money by placing people under you, and receiving a portion of their sales.

That is why the entire concept of MLM is considered a scam. The people who originate the idea make money, while the people doing the work do not. I have yet to see any type of MLM scheme that is set up, at a fundamentally root level, any differently.

 

[CapriiRecords]

I listen to conservative talk radio, basically just for something to listen to when I get bored with my own CD selection, and I get so aggravated by their commercials---selling beauty creams, diet pills, male potency pills, all of which rely on banging your credit card every month, making it brutally hard to cancel your future orders and making health promises while claiming that the product is not designed to treat any ailments. It nauseates me no end that radio hosts who "look out for the folks" allow these snake oil salesmen to pitch these same folks, with the appearance of being legit because they advertise on their show.

You and I have had at it politically before - but putting that aside - doesn't this sort of thing kind of frustrate you from the standpoint of who you're getting your information from? I feel like I would look at my information outlets and if they were actively trying to exploit the naivete my ideological group, I'd have to question the integrity of my information outlets.

I don't listen to talk radio though so I wouldn't be surprised if liberal outlets do the same thing.

 

[hawthorne]

They're scams. The top people make money exploiting those at lower levels, it's the fundamental structure of the organization. I have yet to hear of an example of someone getting in and making money - then again I don't take them seriously so I don't pay a lot of attention.

You do realize that the top level people invest time, the people who do not. Well they don't make money. It is a business of people who are outgoing and willing to go out and get what they want. Its sales nothing more.

That aside, I wouldn't mind hearing the pitch at least. So shoot me a pm.

I actually think it is basically the exact opposite. The whole idea of MLM is predicated on people under you doing the work. You don't make money from the products you sell, you basically break even, or perhaps a small percentage of profit. You make money by placing people under you, and receiving a portion of their sales.

That is why the entire concept of MLM is considered a scam. The people who originate the idea make money, while the people doing the work do not. I have yet to see any type of MLM scheme that is set up, at a fundamentally root level, any differently.

I really am not trying to defend any of these organizations but this is a bit of a short sighted viewpoint. Building the business takes work. People don't just fall into your lap. It takes hours and hours of networking, cold contacts, and working with people to find the diamonds in the rough to build a business enough that it starts to turn a profit. It's all in what kind of work you want to do. I am not a people person, not a salesman. If you are, it can be an outstanding business, even if it is predatory towards those it employs.

All businesses that want to stay in business are about making money. People don't employ others for charity. Even non-profits have to make money to keep their lights on and their doors open. They rely on charity, while businesses like these rely on networking and bringing in new people, and more traditional business relies on manufacturing, selling, or supporting products of some kind. Different approaches, all for a common purpose.

 

[CapriiRecords]

They're scams. The top people make money exploiting those at lower levels, it's the fundamental structure of the organization. I have yet to hear of an example of someone getting in and making money - then again I don't take them seriously so I don't pay a lot of attention.

You do realize that the top level people invest time, the people who do not. Well they don't make money. It is a business of people who are outgoing and willing to go out and get what they want. Its sales nothing more.

That aside, I wouldn't mind hearing the pitch at least. So shoot me a pm.

I actually think it is basically the exact opposite. The whole idea of MLM is predicated on people under you doing the work. You don't make money from the products you sell, you basically break even, or perhaps a small percentage of profit. You make money by placing people under you, and receiving a portion of their sales.

That is why the entire concept of MLM is considered a scam. The people who originate the idea make money, while the people doing the work do not. I have yet to see any type of MLM scheme that is set up, at a fundamentally root level, any differently.

I really am not trying to defend any of these organizations but this is a bit of a short sighted viewpoint. Building the business takes work. People don't just fall into your lap. It takes hours and hours of networking, cold contacts, and working with people to find the diamonds in the rough to build a business enough that it starts to turn a profit. It's all in what kind of work you want to do. I am not a people person, not a salesman. If you are, it can be an outstanding business, even if it is predatory towards those it employs.

All businesses that want to stay in business are about making money. People don't employ others for charity. Even non-profits have to make money to keep their lights on and their doors open. They rely on charity, while businesses like these rely on networking and bringing in new people, and more traditional business relies on manufacturing, selling, or supporting products of some kind. Different approaches, all for a common purpose.

I see your point, but I don't agree with it. Working hard at exploiting people doesn't legitimize your business. Spending years networking, cold calling, fundraising, whatever it is, doesn't negate the ethical ramifications of what your business does. I think Juice Plus is a great example. The founders raised capital, paid for stellar endorsements, ran all the right commercials, "worked hard" but are now under investigation for unsubstantiated health claims. So what happens when Juice Plus gets hit with a class action suit because they were claiming their product does something it doesn't - and everyone who invested piles on?

I really struggle to see a difference between the Bernie Madoffs and Kenneth Lays, and the people who start these companies. Ultimately you're manipulating information, warping public perception, and exploiting the dollars of people below you for personal gain. Or, as we 'Muricans call it, unfettered capitalism.

 

[JimJohnson]

They're scams. The top people make money exploiting those at lower levels, it's the fundamental structure of the organization. I have yet to hear of an example of someone getting in and making money - then again I don't take them seriously so I don't pay a lot of attention.

You do realize that the top level people invest time, the people who do not. Well they don't make money. It is a business of people who are outgoing and willing to go out and get what they want. Its sales nothing more.

That aside, I wouldn't mind hearing the pitch at least. So shoot me a pm.

I actually think it is basically the exact opposite. The whole idea of MLM is predicated on people under you doing the work. You don't make money from the products you sell, you basically break even, or perhaps a small percentage of profit. You make money by placing people under you, and receiving a portion of their sales.

That is why the entire concept of MLM is considered a scam. The people who originate the idea make money, while the people doing the work do not. I have yet to see any type of MLM scheme that is set up, at a fundamentally root level, any differently.

I really am not trying to defend any of these organizations but this is a bit of a short sighted viewpoint. Building the business takes work. People don't just fall into your lap. It takes hours and hours of networking, cold contacts, and working with people to find the diamonds in the rough to build a business enough that it starts to turn a profit. It's all in what kind of work you want to do. I am not a people person, not a salesman. If you are, it can be an outstanding business, even if it is predatory towards those it employs.

All businesses that want to stay in business are about making money. People don't employ others for charity. Even non-profits have to make money to keep their lights on and their doors open. They rely on charity, while businesses like these rely on networking and bringing in new people, and more traditional business relies on manufacturing, selling, or supporting products of some kind. Different approaches, all for a common purpose.

I see your point, but I don't agree with it. Working hard at exploiting people doesn't legitimize your business. Spending years networking, cold calling, fundraising, whatever it is, doesn't negate the ethical ramifications of what your business does. I think Juice Plus is a great example. The founders raised capital, paid for stellar endorsements, ran all the right commercials, "worked hard" but are now under investigation for unsubstantiated health claims. So what happens when Juice Plus gets hit with a class action suit because they were claiming their product does something it doesn't - and everyone who invested piles on?

I really struggle to see a difference between the Bernie Madoffs and Kenneth Lays, and the people who start these companies. Ultimately you're manipulating information, warping public perception, and exploiting the dollars of people below you for personal gain. Or, as we 'Muricans call it, unfettered capitalism.

Obamacare is a scheme to make those at the top rich. New people will never rise to that chart. MLM If you put in the time, you can make money, you dont need to exploit or scheme people. You need to spend the time to find a product you believe in so you can recommend it with conviction to the friends and family you value.

Selling is a mind set, you don't have it. You probably hate most any sales person. May not hate but have a strong distrust at least.

People seem to look at sales people as some look at LEOs. He is a cop must be a power hungry douchebag.


NEWS FLASH:

Just about every company is EXPLOITING people to make the people at top money. Some just make you key in information for 8 hours a day. Some want you to go out and be proactive not reactive while waiting for someone to hold your hand.

 

[CapriiRecords]

They're scams. The top people make money exploiting those at lower levels, it's the fundamental structure of the organization. I have yet to hear of an example of someone getting in and making money - then again I don't take them seriously so I don't pay a lot of attention.

You do realize that the top level people invest time, the people who do not. Well they don't make money. It is a business of people who are outgoing and willing to go out and get what they want. Its sales nothing more.

That aside, I wouldn't mind hearing the pitch at least. So shoot me a pm.

I actually think it is basically the exact opposite. The whole idea of MLM is predicated on people under you doing the work. You don't make money from the products you sell, you basically break even, or perhaps a small percentage of profit. You make money by placing people under you, and receiving a portion of their sales.

That is why the entire concept of MLM is considered a scam. The people who originate the idea make money, while the people doing the work do not. I have yet to see any type of MLM scheme that is set up, at a fundamentally root level, any differently.

I really am not trying to defend any of these organizations but this is a bit of a short sighted viewpoint. Building the business takes work. People don't just fall into your lap. It takes hours and hours of networking, cold contacts, and working with people to find the diamonds in the rough to build a business enough that it starts to turn a profit. It's all in what kind of work you want to do. I am not a people person, not a salesman. If you are, it can be an outstanding business, even if it is predatory towards those it employs.

All businesses that want to stay in business are about making money. People don't employ others for charity. Even non-profits have to make money to keep their lights on and their doors open. They rely on charity, while businesses like these rely on networking and bringing in new people, and more traditional business relies on manufacturing, selling, or supporting products of some kind. Different approaches, all for a common purpose.

I see your point, but I don't agree with it. Working hard at exploiting people doesn't legitimize your business. Spending years networking, cold calling, fundraising, whatever it is, doesn't negate the ethical ramifications of what your business does. I think Juice Plus is a great example. The founders raised capital, paid for stellar endorsements, ran all the right commercials, "worked hard" but are now under investigation for unsubstantiated health claims. So what happens when Juice Plus gets hit with a class action suit because they were claiming their product does something it doesn't - and everyone who invested piles on?

I really struggle to see a difference between the Bernie Madoffs and Kenneth Lays, and the people who start these companies. Ultimately you're manipulating information, warping public perception, and exploiting the dollars of people below you for personal gain. Or, as we 'Muricans call it, unfettered capitalism.

Obamacare is a scheme to make those at the top rich. New people will never rise to that chart. MLM If you put in the time, you can make money, you dont need to exploit or scheme people. You need to spend the time to find a product you believe in so you can recommend it with conviction to the friends and family you value.

Selling is a mind set, you don't have it. You probably hate most any sales person. May not hate but have a strong distrust at least.

People seem to look at sales people as some look at LEOs. He is a cop must be a power hungry douchebag.


NEWS FLASH:

Just about every company is EXPLOITING people to make the people at top money. Some just make you key in information for 8 hours a day. Some want you to go out and be proactive not reactive while waiting for someone to hold your hand.

Sometimes I think you've grown out of being a reactionary tool, then you prove me wrong.

Thanks for telling me that selling is a mindset, and that I don't have it. Thanks for telling me I must hate every sales person.

I've been in real estate sales for a decade. I co-own and manage my own real estate brokerage firm with multiple agents. I spent a decade building a business I started and have been very successful with, through sales.

Thanks for always being predictable JJ, you're what we call an easy sale.

 

[SiegeTank]

I listen to conservative talk radio, basically just for something to listen to when I get bored with my own CD selection, and I get so aggravated by their commercials---selling beauty creams, diet pills, male potency pills, all of which rely on banging your credit card every month, making it brutally hard to cancel your future orders and making health promises while claiming that the product is not designed to treat any ailments. It nauseates me no end that radio hosts who "look out for the folks" allow these snake oil salesmen to pitch these same folks, with the appearance of being legit because they advertise on their show.

You and I have had at it politically before - but putting that aside - doesn't this sort of thing kind of frustrate you from the standpoint of who you're getting your information from? I feel like I would look at my information outlets and if they were actively trying to exploit the naivete my ideological group, I'd have to question the integrity of my information outlets.

I don't listen to talk radio though so I wouldn't be surprised if liberal outlets do the same thing.

This thread is diverging into two different paths so maybe this one should spin off into its own thread. LOL. I don't "get my information" from commercial conservative radio. Nor do I take it from liberal radio hosts. I listen to those shows for ENTERTAINMENT. I realize they're all "for profit" entities and both their dialogue and their advertisers are designed to maximize profit. I get my information from reading various newspapers, magazines, websites and I make a point of trying to get as many perspectives as possible, while aware that almost all of them have their own "axes to grind."

I guess I come across as targeting conservative radio in terms of shilling this kind of products. But that's because conservative talk is BIG on radio and advertisers gravitate toward the highest-rated shows, especially advertisers who need to have a large audience to maximize their yield from so-called "sucker offers." They also present themselves as pro-conservative in some cases, such as gold and silver investment firms.

I've been on this planet long enough to know that you have to do your own homework and approach everything with a skeptical eye and with the assumption that anyone you deal with in life, except perhaps your own parents, are looking out primarily for themselves first and you only to the extent your welfare benefits theirs. Cynical view, perhaps, but true. These sucker offers succeed when people really fall for the idea that these pitchmen are "looking out for the folks."

In terms of the original reason for this thread, my philosophy is always that anything which requires a "hard sell" to sell should be examined with deep suspicion. GOOD products may require advertising to sell but that's to provide the consumer with INFORMATION. When a product requires HYPE to be marketed, and lots of it, CAVEAT EMPTOR.

 

[rob]

One of the benefits to MLMs that is appealing to a lot of people is you work at your own pace and your own direction. You get only what you put into it.

It is starting your own business for only $500 or so. Definitely can see the appeal. The products are over priced for this reason. It's to pay the multi-level commissions.

Ultimately, as more and more people move to the internet, I imagine that MLM will die or at least need to change. Door to door sales will go away and get replaced by niche websites. Those websites will then have to compete against everyone else. At this point it will turn into a more normal commission based sales venture.

Personally, that's not for me. And I make much more doing tech work than actually talking and trying to sell things to people.