Enchanter or Bard?

[seashadow]

So my core group consist of:

100 Warrior /100 SK(depends on what im doing)
100 Mage
100 Wiz
100 Shaman
100 Cleric
100 bard

I'm debating on creating a chanter to replace my bard, as playing the bard does not bring much to the group aside from a little crowd control and some haste.

What do you think with this group makeup - Bard or Enchanter?

 

[Villageidiot]

I haven't played in awhile but when i did, a well played bard brings more to the group than a little haste and a little crowd control. The overall DPS is rather significant. I haven't played a chanter though so i cannot comment on the other side of things. I loved my bard.... Miss that damn toon.

 

[riot]

i'd stick with bard and just improve your twists and/or the rotation on your mage,wiz and shaman. bard songs are a godsend for casters and add an insane amount of dps.

 

[PumpThump]

i'd stick with bard and just improve your twists and/or the rotation on your mage,wiz and shaman. bard songs are a godsend for casters and add an insane amount of dps.

That. Sounds like you are mistakenly under-utilizing your bard.

Also, Clr/Shm is a bit overkill depending on the quality of your tank. Personally I'd swap it with a Bst. You won't notice a ton of difference in slows/buffs, but you will gain a ton of DPS. That or with a Necro for the same reasons.

 

[SiegeTank]

They're both excellent utility toons for a group. I use an enchanter in my full group and sometimes do wish I could somehow squeeze a bard into the group.

An under-appreciated fact about enchanters is that they can kick some ass with their nukes once the dps and crit AA's are maxed out. I run an enchanter with high-AA wizard and a high-AA necro and I'm used to seeing crazy high 6-digit crits for them but what takes me by surprise is the same thing from the enchanter on occasion. Not to mention the benefit of the twincast and damage-enhancing auras. Enchanters also get a shitload of runes and buffs, both group and self-only, which help mitigating of damage in tough fights.

Even the enchanter pet, altho clearly not in the same league as a magician or necro's, is decent extra dps.

Enchanters, like bards, are hard to maximize without spending more time on them than the average boxer can afford to invest in a support toon. I still think charming a mob as extra dps is well-worth the effort but it's so much work, and has enough related risk, that I never bother with it and I just use the fully-buffed and mage-weapon-equipped sword-and-sword animated pet.

 

[unknownerrors]

stick with the bard

The bard provides quite abit more then it sounds like you are using it for.
First of all judging from the make up of you group the bard should be the toon you pull with. When you pull something you can drop the mobs resists so your shaman can drop a slow that will likely stick with out having to malo first. And for me at least, priority # 1 even higher priority than my tank gaining agro is getting the pull slowed. You can also pull with a bard slow. You should be dropping disesase, fire, ice, and magic resists, either while the pull is inc or with in the first few seconds after it gets into camp. This saves all your casters 1 spell cast. And if you have good modifers, you still be 2nd rate dps but your dots/debuffs can be 2nd to none.
Add managment. Bards aren't as good at mez as chanters Imo but when your in a bind you can keep up to 3 mobs mez at any give time.
Haste, regen, dmg shields, combat procs, all of these things make bards the swiss army knife of eq toons. And again if you have good modifers, your all that much better. And given that the higheat modifers are found on instruments you should get used to using /swap commands to swap in and out your instruments. Also. Amplify, a largely over looked song. Use it.

 

[riot]

Actually a bard can keep up to 8ish mezzed at once. Aoe mez is 4 mobs then twist normal mez on other mobs. It's tough but doable!


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[William12]

pretty sure AE mez is like 6 mobs not 4 on bard.

Bard doesn't add as much to wizards because of familiars. Enchanters add way more now days. No real reason to have a bard if you run a caster group now days except for necros.

Drop the shaman and add enchanter and use SK. An SK will self heal for 2-3 times as much as any cleric or shaman will heal it for while a warrior won't.

SK
Cleric
Bard
Wizard
Mage
Enchanter

If you really want to get it going just use mage pet tank and drop the tank for another dps.

I got SK, Wizard, Wizard, Bard, Cleric, Enchanter. I just cannot play without a bard pulling without Selo's is annoyingly slow.

 

[Dealings]

Bard doesn't add as much to wizards because of familiars. Enchanters add way more now days. No real reason to have a bard if you run a caster group now days except for necros.

if you are running your wiz well (macro or otherwise) between twin spell, twin aa and twin proc you wont find yourself desperate for a twin proc from chanter aura, dont get me wrong its welcomed but not like a good wizard isnt already twinning often anyways.

Bard guarantees dps increase not just random chance to proc

I have both chanter and bard , for me in a 3 wiz grp (then tank + a healer) I tend to see more dps w a bard than I do w chanter

the mezzing from chanter is great I can mez w bard but if I dont want to have trains on me I dont have to

as far as the necro comment, not alot of dotting going in w 3 wizards nuking......

I got SK, Wizard, Wizard, Bard, Cleric, Enchanter.

just like a sham/cler is overkill, imo so is a chanter/bard in same grp , I also go druid instead cleric when I want to, and 3rd wiz instead of chanter

imo there is no grp where a bard doesnt make things much better, whereas a chanter is great when u have to or want to deal a bunch of adds.

 

[hawthorne]

Enchanter this, bard that.

Parse it. Show your data.

I would use a chanter with the group listed in the OP but I can see valid arguments for both.
Shaman, chanter, and cleric all in one group tends to be overkill though.

 

[unknownerrors]

Enchanter this, bard that.

Parse it. Show your data.

sadly, all my toons are still in their 50's, (just returned to the game last week.) so i don't have those epic modifiers yet.. but when i do i'll do just that.

 

[riot]

Just send some end game wizards some tells and ask them which they prefer. Pretty sure most will say bard.


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[aikijitsu]

parses here.

http://www.mmobugs.com/forums/everquest-general-chat-requests-questions/27000-enchanter-bard-4.html

 

[PumpThump]

parses here.

http://www.mmobugs.com/forums/everquest-general-chat-requests-questions/27000-enchanter-bard-4.html

I don't see pets included in your parse?

 

[aikijitsu]

It's all parsed together from logs. You don't see +pets because I don't use gameparse but they are in there.

 

[PumpThump]

It's all parsed together from logs. You don't see +pets because I don't use gameparse but they are in there.

For what it's worth, then, you don't have the best song lineup for mages, or the best spell lineup on the mages to make use of the bards.

You should trade Arcane Hymn for Kaficus' Song of Suffering. The mage pets will get a much bigger boost from the proc song than the mage will get from the spell proc song. Also, bard songs affect swarm pets if the mage has Pet affinity. A swarm pet receiving Protan's Haste and the Proc Song is a beast. There's no way an Enchanter is going to buff swarm pets.

Change those two things and check the parses. I'd be curious of the results.

 

[riot]

Arcane stacks with kaficus I'm pretty sure so you can have both procing. It's a big boost in damage when you pop the swarms. Rumbling is also really good dps.


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[aikijitsu]

I'll try that and post the results in the other thread.

Actually, I'll post them here.

 

[riot]

It's all parsed together from logs. You don't see +pets because I don't use gameparse but they are in there.

For what it's worth, then, you don't have the best song lineup for mages, or the best spell lineup on the mages to make use of the bards.

You should trade Arcane Hymn for Kaficus' Song of Suffering. The mage pets will get a much bigger boost from the proc song than the mage will get from the spell proc song. Also, bard songs affect swarm pets if the mage has Pet affinity. A swarm pet receiving Protan's Haste and the Proc Song is a beast. There's no way an Enchanter is going to buff swarm pets.

Change those two things and check the parses. I'd be curious of the results.

Arcane stacks with kaficus I'm pretty sure so you can have both procing. It's a big boost in damage when you pop the swarms. Rumbling is also really good dps.


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We're both wrong on this. Turns out bard songs don't affect rumbling or swarm pets. I clicked on one by mistake and noticed that it had zero songs on it. The only effects that they had were auras. The description is very misleading since it says 'Makes your summoned petS a valid target for beneficial spells'.

Ah well, should have paid closer attention to it.