Piracy

[Kodilynn]

Cox doesn't give a shit what I do as long as I don't go over 250 gigs in a months time. Did it once to about 358 gigs and they shut me off until I called them where they tried to upsell me to the 500g a month for only $99.99. I laughed and said I would watch my behavior in the future.

 

[William12]

Cox doesn't give a shit what I do as long as I don't go over 250 gigs in a months time. Did it once to about 358 gigs and they shut me off until I called them where they tried to upsell me to the 500g a month for only $99.99. I laughed and said I would watch my behavior in the future.

lol comcast doesn't care where i live. Downloaded 15 TBs or porn one month lol

 

[hawthorne]

And the rum.. don't forget the rum..

 

[orion949]

The times have changed, either you adapt or you get steam rolled over. I subscribe to Netflix and Hulu and I buy my VODs from Dish. Honestly as a whole, different people are getting my money but they are getting
ALOT more of it than they did 15 years ago.

In those days I would rent two VHS videos maybe every other weekend for like five bucks. Now, just out of pure boredom and the ease of use I'll click on a VOD for $5 bucks on a weeknight like 3 or 4 times a week just sitting on the couch.

As for music, like a said, I have fucking gigabytes of God only knows what, 50cent, Kanye, and whatever other dipshits are making "music" but I dont even listen to it. I use Pandora on my phone when Im at the gym or in my car and I havent actually "loaded" a song onto my phone in like 3 years.

These fuck hole Music and Movie companies that thought they were going to keep on selling $23 CDs with 8 songs on it and $20 DVDs that, like Blitz said, force you to sit thru 20 minutes of spam trailers are just reaping what their business models have sewn.

 

[Remianen]

I have netflix, amazon prime and Dish. I plan on getting rid of Dish though when my contract runs out.

My issues with Dish are the same as my issues with music CDs. Out of the 300+ bullshit channels I have, I might want 5 total. I would rather pay half the price and get the 5 channels than support 300+ channels that I hate like, Oxygen, O, MSNBC, HSN, TLC, etc.

Truth. Although, I will admit that some channels I didn't care about, I've grown to like for their unique programming (Science Channel with Survivorman (offloaded from Discovery Channel) and Dark Matters; and Extreme Couponing taught me how to get $800 worth of shit for $150).

lol comcast doesn't care where i live. Downloaded 15 TBs or porn one month lol

Yeah, one of the great things about moving out of NYC was having to switch from shitty ass Cablevision to Comcast.

These fuck hole Music and Movie companies that thought they were going to keep on selling $23 CDs with 8 songs on it and $20 DVDs that, like Blitz said, force you to sit thru 20 minutes of spam trailers are just reaping what their business models have sewn.

I don't know if any of you are, uh, advanced enough to remember when you didn't have a choice BUT to rent movies? Buying them cost like $200 each. It was a scheme to feed the rental market, which comprised the vast majority of tape sales at the time. Eventually someone figured it might be profitable to cast a wider net and then they came down to like $40 each. I remember wanting Gremlins but my mother nixing that idea because it was $189.99 for the VHS tape.

But the music and movie industries are getting hammered because they chose to ignore the advance of technology. I too remember having to shell out $14-18 for a CD just to get the 1-2 (or, gasp, 3!) good songs on it. What's funny is, iTunes came out just after the music industry became heavily single-driven. Just when they figured out that idiot consumers would pay them exorbitant amounts of money for a few crumbs of quality, Apple basically jacks them for their beats, so to speak. Break yoself, f00!

Do you honestly think Hulu would even exist if not for the networks being forced to somehow profit off their own content? Piracy, to me, has been the fire lit up under the asses of content providers. No more are consumers slaves to whatever the fuck the networks and studios want to shit out to the audience. I remember one of my friends having to sneak a video camera into the movie theater to make a master for bootlegging on the street. That was before he figured out bribing the projector operator to make a copy for him. Piracy has existed since media has existed. How many people used to tape songs off the radio (I can't be the only person to have called Frankie Crocker and told him to stop talking and just play the damn music. Can I?)? Piracy! Because if you taped a good version of a song, someone would ask you to borrow that tape and they'd dub it and so on. I used to say if they didn't want us recording stuff, they shouldn't have put a record button on the damn radio!

Piracy has affected the recording industry so much, they're trying to screw artists into giving them a cut of their revenue from touring (which used to go all to the artist). Piracy has affected the movie industry so much that Jennifer Lopez can still get movie roles (who's next? Madonna?). Pfft!

 

[Tempest]

Nuff Said

 

[orion949]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/...ofits-salaries-despite-piracy-fear-mongering/

Although a recent National Crime Prevention Council ad campaign tries to make the point that piracy kills jobs, the CRS found that total gross revenues and box office receipts have doubled in the last 15 years. Grosses went from $52.8 billion in 1995 to $104.4 billion in 2009, while box office receipts went from $5.3 billion in 1995 to $10.6 billion in 2010 — yet hiring still went down.

One thing that has gone up, higher than ever, is executive pay. The CRS report noted that News Corporation paid CEO Rupert Murdoch $33,292,753 in 2011; Viacom gave CEO Philippe Dauman made $84,515,308; Time Warner CEO Jeffrey Bewkes took home $26,303,071; while Disney CEO Robert A. Lger earned $29,617,964. Sony CEO Howard Stringer was at the bottom of the bunch at $4.3 million, having taken a 14 percent pay cut due to losses.

So...record breaking fucking profits, raping the consumer blind whenever they possibly can get away with it, paying their execs insane mind-blowing salaries, and yet still cutting out "little guy" jobs. Classy.

Hmmm? Who is the bad guy here? The kid downloading a movie that he couldn't afford to buy even if he wanted to or these fuck faces piling mountains of cash on their execs for sitting on their asses and cutting out low jobs while still charging ever more and more for admissions and media?

 

[Wizman61]

If a town with ~30k people is small, I wonder what you'd classify my area as. It has less than 8k... *listens for banjo music* I dun wanna squeal like a piggy....

"You got a purdy mouf boy" roflmao


I read recently that those who do download stuff illegally are also the ones that DO spend more actually purchasing music and movies, etc. I'm not sure if it was in a recent Wired mag or PC World. I know that I have well over 1k dvds I've copied in my collection, but most of these I paid to rent first.

 

[Chatwiththisname]

Cox doesn't give a shit what I do as long as I don't go over 250 gigs in a months time. Did it once to about 358 gigs and they shut me off until I called them where they tried to upsell me to the 500g a month for only $99.99. I laughed and said I would watch my behavior in the future.

Lol didn't realize they had a limit.....I've been on cox cable, now I'm on verizon. running 50 down, 35 up connection. downloaded EQ in its entirety in about 10 minutes lol. But yeah, never heard about a data usage cap from cox. Nor would I pay for an increased amount and would likely have issues with them shutting my internet off due to excessive usage....I'm paying for excessive usage, if I wanted a data cap I'd get a cell phone and tether off it.

 

[SiegeTank]

Although a recent National Crime Prevention Council ad campaign tries to make the point that piracy kills jobs, the CRS found that total gross revenues and box office receipts have doubled in the last 15 years. Grosses went from $52.8 billion in 1995 to $104.4 billion in 2009, while box office receipts went from $5.3 billion in 1995 to $10.6 billion in 2010 — yet hiring still went down.

According to fed stats, $1000 of buying power in 1985 is worth $2134 today. Which means if "grosses" went up from $52.8b to $104.4b, they have not even kept up with inflation. Same with box office receipts. So in adjusted dollars both are WAY down.

Remember with stats, "there are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics."

Using such stats, one COULD argue that "grosses" and box office receipts are actually DOWN about 6% since 1985.

IMO piracy, however the term may have romantic implcations for some, IS a crime. It's one that most people will never get charged with except for the occasional case we all hear about where some homemaker is threatened with a $100k fine for letting her youngster download 20 bootleg songs thru their household Internet connection. Unfortunately a defense based on "well, the music and movie industries make shitloads of money anyway" doesn't go too far.

 

[hawthorne]

So, are you making 2.134 times your pay that you were in 1985? No. Highly doubtful. Using inflation without taking into consideration all of the factors that go into it is just as dishonest. The fact of the matter is, the MPAA is not hurting for money in any way. The RIAA is perhaps doing worse than it was in the 80's but a large part of that is their inability to adjust to changing technology. Independent artists still happen. Musical acts still make money, they just do it in other way than to sell CD's worth of shit to people.

 

[orion949]

Although a recent National Crime Prevention Council ad campaign tries to make the point that piracy kills jobs, the CRS found that total gross revenues and box office receipts have doubled in the last 15 years. Grosses went from $52.8 billion in 1995 to $104.4 billion in 2009, while box office receipts went from $5.3 billion in 1995 to $10.6 billion in 2010 — yet hiring still went down.

According to fed stats, $1000 of buying power in 1985 is worth $2134 today. Which means if "grosses" went up from $52.8b to $104.4b, they have not even kept up with inflation. Same with box office receipts. So in adjusted dollars both are WAY down.

Dude why are you talking about 1985? The topic here is their 15 year assessment from 1995 to 2009/2210. What the fuck does 1985 stats have to do with anything?

Now, everybody here knows Orion seriously sux at math so some 3rd party please check my math here as we go along...

(http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/)

1995 to 2010 = 43.1% inflation

So $52b in 1995 would end up being $74b in 2010 dollars right?

Still leaving them with a record fucking breaking profit (with inflation) of $30 fucking billion dollars right?

 

[SiegeTank]

You're right, my bad, I looked at the wrong table.

So they have made more money over those years, for whatever that argument is worth. It's still not much of an argument that it's OK to pirate copyrighted material because the copyright owners made a lot of money.

I think we all know that.

 

[orion949]

You're right, my bad, I looked at the wrong table.

So they have made more money over those years, for whatever that argument is worth. It's still not much of an argument that it's OK to pirate copyrighted material because the copyright owners made a lot of money.

I think we all know that.

What does that have to do with anything dude? The topic is not the "right and wrong" of piracy. Im pretty sure the question of moral right and wrong on our website fully of cheaters is going to invalidate itself. We could sit here all day and talk about the moral right and wrong thats not the point of this thread. Otherwise, I would be asking if YOU have ever downloaded copyrighted material? But Im not.

My original topic is weather or not piracy is really damaging the Movie and Music industry the way they are trying to claim it is? And in my OP Im showing a study that says NO this is not true at all, so lets move back to that topic.

So, all "right and wrong" aside. Do you believe the outright LIES that the media companies tell us, and are paying tons of advertising money to perpetuate, that they are being run out of business by Piracy and they are really losing hundreds of billions in hard earned revenue because of it???

I say that is BULLSHIT!

Before I even read that study I knew it was bullshit. Just think about the dudes you know that "pirate" shit. Who are they?

The study in the OP shows that the "evil pirates" are the fucking BEST CUSTOMERS and I do 100% believe that. The same nerds that would download 100 gigs of songs are the same guys that have itunes on all their phones, tablets, and computers and are PAYING for shit non-stop. Paying for streaming movies, music and video on demand via broadband. The same geeks that have like every Star-Wars, Star-Trek, Matrix and LoTR blu-ray boxed sets on the mantle! (yes, I do!) These are the same geeks that wait at the theater at midnight for Transfomers 2 to be released and then they PAY to see the fucking movie three times after that!

This is all a bullshit ploy by the huge insanely profitable (record breaking profits as we see!) to increase their control over the consumer and get legislation that they want passed and continue to make more and more money as their execs salaries break into the 100 million dollar range.

So, if you believe that Piracy is really destroying the Media industries and making them lose money show me some evidence??? (other than some 1985 stats you made up out of nowhere)

 

[Littleguy]

Still leaving them with a record fucking breaking profit (with inflation) of $30 fucking billion dollars right?

you act like this is a lot of money! Do you know how many Air Jordan shoes five black kids wear!

 

[SiegeTank]

Implicit throughout this thread are the notions that piracy is somehow justified, due to the high cost and high profits of those in the entertainment industry, and that piracy is somehow beneficial to society because it leads to developments in that industry which lowers the cost of the products and makes them ultimately more accessible. I'm just pointing out that to extent anyone uses these "excuses" they're rationalizations.

TBH, I have NEVER downloaded a video or song illegally. Not to blow my own horn but you alluded to somehow asking me this would somehow demonstrate hypocrisy on my part.

NO, I don't think that's inconsistent with being a member of this site. Cheating at an on-line game (which I did do in the past but stopped months ago after the big wave of bans/suspensions) is not illegal, "just" contrary to the rules. Downloading videos or songs without paying the proper fees IS illegal. Potentially very seriously illegal. Big difference. Yeah, my business involves me in the provider end of this economic process so I have a personal interest in protecting the works and interests of those who make music and other forms of copyrighted entertainment.

It's ironic but true that piracy probably does lead to improvements in how these industries distribute their product---as a SIDE EFFECT since the primary goal of a pirate is to get stuff for free that other people have to pay for.

It's also true, IMO, that piracy hurts the little guys who make music, software and the like more than the bigger outfits, because they can't bear the losses as easily and for them such losses could lead to bankruptcy. These are called "intellectual PROPERTY" for a reason. The irony is everyone "sees" the criminal act in stealing a physical music CD or movie DVD from a retail brick-n-mortar storefront. But, for some reason, when the same content is stolen in digital format, somehow this seems "OK".

I know a guy who self-publishes a magazine---on paper. When he first started out, he lost money due to printing costs. But then the popularity of his work increased and he started making some profit. That's when some wiseguy decided to buy a copy, cut it up, scan it and then post it on some warez site for others to enjoy---without paying for it. Now this happens with every issue. He talked with a lawyer but they told him not to waste his money. This kind of thing is hosted on anonymous overseas servers and there's no chance of trying to stop it, or recover damages. He's still publishing and his sales have increased but I can guarantee you he doesn't think it's because his friendly neighborhood pirate has contributed to his popularity.

Yeah, I hear you that you didn't intend this thread to deal with the moral aspects of piracy. But the moral aspect bumps into the financial unavoidably and it's impossible to argue, I think, that stealing digital products doesn't have a material effect on businesses, any less than shoplifting does serious damage to the retail industry. Showing numbers that an industry has grown during the digital age doesn't prove a thing because that fails to show how much it would have grown withOUT piracy.

 

[orion949]

Still leaving them with a record fucking breaking profit (with inflation) of $30 fucking billion dollars right?

you act like this is a lot of money! Do you know how many Air Jordan shoes five black kids wear!

What does this mean? I dont understand you.

 

[Littleguy]

Please keep in mind that "copyright" is just some made up thing by the big business companies, and that it itself only has a "good" "legal" meaning just because those same business companies demanded it. One could easily argue that copyright hampers the development of human kind, and that itself makes it wrong. Think of the amount of people that would not be on this world if Dr. Fleming decided to copyright penicillin. That discovery itself and the process he used was not kept locked up because of "copyright" and it has lead to sooo sooo many more antibiotics that we may not have.

copyright is evil. I have no problem going against evil.

 

[Littleguy]

Still leaving them with a record fucking breaking profit (with inflation) of $30 fucking billion dollars right?

you act like this is a lot of money! Do you know how many Air Jordan shoes five black kids wear!

What does this mean? I dont understand you.

Sorry.... Im watching Get Him to the Greek. It is a line Pdiddy uses as an exec at a major label company that is complaining his profits are down.

 

[orion949]

These are called "intellectual PROPERTY" for a reason. The irony is everyone "sees" the criminal act in stealing a physical music CD or movie DVD from a retail brick-n-mortar storefront. But, for some reason, when the same content is stolen in digital format, somehow this seems "OK".

I know a guy who self-publishes a magazine---on paper. When he first started out, he lost money due to printing costs. But then the popularity of his work increased and he started making some profit. That's when some wiseguy decided to buy a copy, cut it up, scan it and then post it on some warez site for others to enjoy---without paying for it. Now this happens with every issue. He talked with a lawyer but they told him not to waste his money. This kind of thing is hosted on anonymous overseas servers and there's no chance of trying to stop it, or recover damages.

This is a very valid point and a compelling story about your friend as a small magazine publisher and I can easily see how Piracy could damage his business.

But, again, that's not what Im talking about here, Im talking about this huge push by the Media Companies as a whole trying to portray massive losses in revenue due to piracy and waging all out war with billions of dollars spent in lobbing for legislation approval and add campaigns. When its just not true. Period.

Maybe your buddy lost a couple hundred bucks with his magazine or whatever his deal was but that is a far cry from these guys paying their CEOs tens of millions of dollars and then pretending like the "evil pirates" have them on their knees and they can barely turn a profit. Just simply not true which is what the study in my original post shows.

They are making more money than ever before, profits are going up and up, CEO salaries are through the roof, and their is not end in site to the money they will be making from consumers.