IT Certificiates

[mjtizzle21]

IT Certificates

Hail, a MMOBugs.

I'm posting to hear your suggestions on which certificates to get started on after graduating college with a degree in Information Technology. I am graduating in 9 months. I will be taking only 1 course over the summer 12 week semester and was looking to get started/complete some type of certificate to put myself ahead in the job market during this time.

With that said, is 12 weeks enough to study/complete some of the basic certificates? If anyone experienced in the IT field could give me some tips that'd be great.

Thanks

 

[dasher]

my advice would be to try to get an internship. work for free if you have to. experience is what I look for when hiring.

 

[[40oz]]

I've done IT hiring as well. I could give two shits about certificates. Most first level certs are paper certs anyways and say nothing of a candidates abilities.

Get experience. Learn something inside and out. Start your own project to learn a technology better. Contribute to an open source project (if you're more a programmer type). Do something that is tangible and you can prove gave you solid knowledge of some subject. I care only about attitude, critical thinking skills, and enthusiasm when I'm hiring, followed by experience. I don't even pay attention to certs / degrees.

That said, larger corporations will.

If you're more a server type, Virtualization is huge. Get yourself a VCP (VMware Certified Professional).

If you're more a networking type, grab a CCNA.

If you're a programmer type, I can't help you. I always work with infrastructure.

 

[PeteyPablo]

If you want to force yourself to get experience with something, then choose a cert for it. For example, if you are not strong on virtualization, then get a virtualization cert. It forces you to learn something about it. Certs really only force you to study on your own and learn, other wise you won't study.

 

[mjtizzle21]

Awesome thanks for the info.

 

[rob]

RHCE is a decent one if you're interested in sys admin work. As a Jr admin, it should give you an edge. MCSE for Windows.

If you're interested in security, a good long term goal would be to get your CISSP, but that takes a long time. That said, to me, a cert means little. lots of papertechs in the industry.

 

[Zero0003]

I've done IT hiring as well. I could give two shits about certificates. Most first level certs are paper certs anyways and say nothing of a candidates abilities.

Get experience. Learn something inside and out. Start your own project to learn a technology better. Contribute to an open source project (if you're more a programmer type). Do something that is tangible and you can prove gave you solid knowledge of some subject. I care only about attitude, critical thinking skills, and enthusiasm when I'm hiring, followed by experience. I don't even pay attention to certs / degrees.

That said, larger corporations will.

If you're more a server type, Virtualization is huge. Get yourself a VCP (VMware Certified Professional).

If you're more a networking type, grab a CCNA.

If you're a programmer type, I can't help you. I always work with infrastructure.

I've worked in IT for a long time and hired many people over the years. Most people coming out of college have the set mind " Oh I have a college degree in IT I can get any position". Not always true. I mostly look for experience as the number 1 key. I do agree what he said above is dead right on.

Get Microsoft, VCP certifications and you would have a bright future ahead of you to show your employer that you have good general knowledge of servers.

 

[Ccomp5950]

I own a small company that does IT work for other companies that need full size IT support but can't afford a full time IT person(s).

When I'm hiring I'm going to put a computer infront of you and I'm going to ask you to do certain things. That said, I'm a small business owner, HR at a larger company isn't going to have time to do such things.

I don't care about certifications most of them are just study and pass. Unless you are a Red Hat Certified Engineer (not an easy certification) I'm really not going to even look at your certs. Though if you have the certs I might ask you some questions related to the certs to get a good guess as to if you are a "Paper Tech" or not. If you have a Network+ and I ask you what the OSI layers are and you look at me like I grew a third head I'll probably call CompTIA on the spot and recommend they revoke your certification.

IT for large businesses is about specializations, they want people experienced with X and the market actually has people with that experience so it works. Medium sized companies want generalized experience and to make sure you can work on an IT team. Unless you have an internship with a large company than the medium sized company is your sweet spot. Don't expect to make 6 figures starting out, a college degree and certs might as well be the same as a high school diploma. It makes you qualified to apply and not be instantly thrown in the trash can however it won't stand out.

Look at the keywords in the job listing and tailor your resume to fit those. If you are being hired by a mindless HR drone then really all you need to do is get Y out of Z keywords matched and you are past level 1. Level 2 you are probably going to be put in front of someone from the IT department and you will need to be able to talk shop with them, don't bullshit them if you don't know something don't pretend you do. The best answer at that point is "I don't know much about that, but I'm pretty sure I know where to look to learn about it if I needed to."

A lot of people in our field are afraid to say "I don't know". There is nothing wrong with not knowing but if you look like their Uncle Ned talking about Overclocking his ram and adding memory to his processor (in an attempt to impress the listener with your vast knowledge) you are going to be dropped out the door unceremoniously.

Good luck.

 

[twizzops]

I'm a network engineer and work exclusively with Cisco and RSA products, so take what I say with a grain of salt if you aren't into networking or security.

When I got out of College, I personally got an internship. After 3 months, it turned into a full time position. Looking back at it, I knew dick starting out, compared to what I know now after just 4 years of experience.

College is completely over-rated. It shouldn't even be a requirement for most IT jobs. I think people would get a hell of a lot more out of doing a year or 2 internship and not give universities a dime. Even if you work for free, you won't owe near as much and you will come out way ahead.

In my field Cisco certifications do mean a good deal, but like others have said, you need to be able to back up what you are "certified" to do. Attitude also plays a huge part. You have to be able to learn fast, be able to think critically, and troubleshoot.

 

[mjtizzle21]

Thanks again for all the great advice. It seems the general consensus is the same.

You guys are definitely right about the whole internship thing. I had one for 6 months in a corporate office and learned much more than I did in 95% of the classes I've taken. Unfortunately had to leave that one due to a bad class schedule not allowing me to work for a semester. Aiming to get a new internship soon though.

Anyone in the Orlando area need an IT intern, i'll afk exp your toons for free!

 

[aikijitsu]

There is a certain stigma associated with some certs and the people who say certs are not valuable usually have no clue what they are talking about. They call them paper certs because in the old days of Windows NT 4.0 and to some degree Windows 2000 you could study questions and answers and pass a test. Starting with Windows Server 2003 there's a theory section and a functional / How To part of the exam.

Here's an example.
Can you explain Server Clustering? Most people can do this. A follow up question in an interview and on the exam is,

How do you fail over a cluster manually, step by step and it's virtualized in a lab environment on the exam itself. I usually get deer in headlights with specific how to questions. I can determine how broad and deep you are in several areas based on a few questions.

Most people in the business can certainly talk terminology and understand theories, talk the talk so to speak.

The training you get from the big names like Microsoft and Cisco, ISO 2000, ITIL and others is invaluable and you will have much broader knowledge and also be much deeper in subjects than a person not certified. Someone with just "experience" will be able to do daily tasks that are common but when a project comes up and requires broad and deep knowledge they are lost and stuck on a helpdesk when it comes time for promos.

With all that said it depends on what you are interested in. Right now in big business everything is about Business Alignment and Cloud computing whether is Public or Private. This means Virtualization, automation, self service, scripting, system tools like System Center, IaaS, PaaS, MOF 4.0 and so on. If you are targeting a consulting or other small business for some experience a more specific technology certification would be good to train for and learn. Something like Windows 7 or Office, Network+ etc..

I hold
ICND CCNA 2.0
MCSE 2000 / 2003
MCITP Enterprise Administrator
MCITP Business Intelligence
ITIL v3 Foundation
MOF 4.0

Currently working on qualifying for the Microsoft Certified Master program in SQL Server.

 

[Ccomp5950]

There is a certain stigma associated with some certs and the people who say certs are not valuable usually have no clue what they are talking about. They call them paper certs because in the old days of Windows NT 4.0 and to some degree Windows 2000 you could study questions and answers and pass a test. Starting with Windows Server 2003 there's a theory section and a functional / How To part of the exam.

How many certs are hands on? Appears only higher end certs and most microsoft ones, rest are rightfully called "Paper Certs" and are ignored. This isn't because people "usually have no clue"

I enjoyed the Microsoft cert where I was asked to make a user. I dropped to the command line created the user using "Net User" set the password, set access, and clicked "Complete". Afterwards I was told "Incorrect".

This is the problem with Microsoft "Hands on" certs, they record clicks and actions unlike the actual operating system there isn't multiple correct answers. (How many ways can you pull up device manager in windows? I can think of 4)

 

[twizzops]

There is a certain stigma associated with some certs and the people who say certs are not valuable usually have no clue what they are talking about. They call them paper certs because in the old days of Windows NT 4.0 and to some degree Windows 2000 you could study questions and answers and pass a test. Starting with Windows Server 2003 there's a theory section and a functional / How To part of the exam.

How many certs are hands on? Appears only higher end certs and most microsoft ones, rest are rightfully called "Paper Certs" and are ignored. This isn't because people "usually have no clue"

I enjoyed the Microsoft cert where I was asked to make a user. I dropped to the command line created the user using "Net User" set the password, set access, and clicked "Complete". Afterwards I was told "Incorrect".

This is the problem with Microsoft "Hands on" certs, they record clicks and actions unlike the actual operating system there isn't multiple correct answers. (How many ways can you pull up device manager in windows? I can think of 4)

I am not sure about other certifications, but Cisco certs are pretty highly regarded. Most likely, someone with a Cisco professional level certification is going to at least get the interview when applying for a job. Most HR type people are looking for key words in resumes. That's what some certifications provide. The interview may be with a someone from IT, but someone from IT isn't looking through tons of resumes for an opening.

I consult for quite a few SMBs and a few large public and private sector businesses. Almost none of the IT staff knows anything about networking and they never have anything more than a CCNA. You find someone with a CCNP whatever or CCIE whatever they are going to know what they are talking about.

The main problem with networking, is you either work for a consulting company, huge corporate company, or the government. There's not really a whole lot of jobs in between. It's also hard as hell to get your foot in the door.

 

[Ccomp5950]

I agree completely. CCNA is entry level and I'd ignore it just as soon as I'd ignore a Network+ cert (which I hold both of those).

 

[aikijitsu]

I will disagree with you. In the exam you are given a gui and asked to do a set of tasks. Why would you drop to a cmd? The exam doesnt test your knowledge of command prompt syntax anyway. Sounds like you can't follow instructions.

 

[aikijitsu]

Most likely, someone with a Cisco professional level certification is going to at least get the interview when applying for a job. Most HR type people are looking for key words in resumes. That's what some certifications provide. The interview may be with a someone from IT, but someone from IT isn't looking through tons of resumes for an opening.

====================================================

It depends on the job, the original poster said he was entry level so a CCNA might be a good start. Also, it is true HR isn't going to know technical details and IT isn't going through resumes but at our company (one of the largest insurance companies in the Nation), IT gives HR the requirements for the job and when HR identifies candidates we go through those resumes and determine who we are going to interview.

 

[Ccomp5950]

I will disagree with you. In the exam you are given a gui and asked to do a set of tasks. Why would you drop to a cmd? The exam doesnt test your knowledge of command prompt syntax anyway. Sounds like you can't follow instructions.

Really? You missed the entire point. Your post is disregarded. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

The instructions are make a user and assign "Power User" local group. The instructions were not "Use compmgmt.mmc to create a user and assign them to the local group "Power Users". Off the top of my head I can think of 3 ways to perform this task.

I can right click "My Computer"
Left Click Manage
Left click on "Users and Local Groups"
Right click on blank space
Left click on "Create New".
Type the user name you want to make.
Assign them to a local group in the wizard or select "Local Groups" from the "Users and Local Groups" menu.

or

go through the wizard within the control panel.

...

or

Click start
click run
type cmd
type "Net user ${Username} ${Password} /add" and hit enter
type "Net localgroup "Power Users" ${Username} /add" and hit enter

Each creates the user, each sets them into the correct local group. However only the first is the correct entry on the "Hands on" portion of a Microsoft Exam 70-270.

 

[[40oz]]

I used to give MS certs and Entry Level CCNA certs a lot more credit, but not after the last few rounds of hiring. The lack of knowledge by people who held current MCSE / CCNAs was astounding. I even had a guy with a CCNP that couldn't explain what CIDR was to me, something a CCNA should be bale to do. And I thought Cisco professional level and higher certs still mean something. Any written test will have paper certs, so the CCNP is included there. I've even seen study materials that listed all the possible labs and their solutions. CCIE is the last test standing that I've dealt with that has a completely hands on portion that can't be prepared for by anything other than knowing the subject matter. (Red Hat certs I haven't touched, so they may be good too)

That's why I don't pay much attention to certs. As the thread states, they will help you study a subject, and they might get your foot in the door, but they will never win you the job.

 

[aikijitsu]

CCIE is the last test standing that I've dealt with that has a completely hands on portion that can't be prepared for by anything other than knowing the subject matter. (Red Hat certs I haven't touched, so they may be good too)

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/in/certification/master.aspx#meet

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/architect.aspx#tab3

 

[aikijitsu]

I will disagree with you. In the exam you are given a gui and asked to do a set of tasks. Why would you drop to a cmd? The exam doesnt test your knowledge of command prompt syntax anyway. Sounds like you can't follow instructions.

Really? You missed the entire point. Your post is disregarded. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

The instructions are make a user and assign "Power User" local group. The instructions were not "Use compmgmt.mmc to create a user and assign them to the local group "Power Users". Off the top of my head I can think of 3 ways to perform this task.

I can right click "My Computer"
Left Click Manage
Left click on "Users and Local Groups"
Right click on blank space
Left click on "Create New".
Type the user name you want to make.
Assign them to a local group in the wizard or select "Local Groups" from the "Users and Local Groups" menu.

or

go through the wizard within the control panel.

...

or

Click start
click run
type cmd
type "Net user ${Username} ${Password} /add" and hit enter
type "Net localgroup "Power Users" ${Username} /add" and hit enter

Each creates the user, each sets them into the correct local group. However only the first is the correct entry on the "Hands on" portion of a Microsoft Exam 70-270.

Tests vary. Your point... Exams and practice tests have errors? Bravo