Debate-Teen punched in face by cop?

[flapjack34429]

If it were a man pushing the cop and his response was hitting him, would things be different? Of course.

Women expect they can get away with more than men, she did not expect any retribution for pushing him around and trying to get her friend free.

The cop was certainly in a very bad situation, and what he did worked out subduing her with minimum injures to all involved. It did make the crowd turn on him though which was a real bad move. The only way to get even in anything you do with cops is to shut your mouth, don't say a word, and let your lawyer work his magic later. Don't try and free your friend being arrested.

Note to everyone, do not push cops and expect no retribution. Stay calm and let them do there job. You fuck with a cop, he'll fuck you back twice as bad.

being a police officer myself, my opinion would probably be judged as biased towards a fellow officer. But i definitely like Fry's note

 

[Vesryn]

I think he was perfectly justified in reacting the way he did. I would likely have responded the same way.

 

[necroman]

shoot em all. black white brown yellow pink orange i dont give a damn but when a cop tells you to do somethign DO IT

 

[Littleguy]

I could make a case for this dumb shit being shot from afar with some rubber bullets but as a result of the outcry over the tazing in Philly the fatties in Baltimore just watch him and waste about two minutes of everyone's time:

those 2 cases are not even related. The only time that was wasted was the players time, cause if you cant hear the crowd is cheering more then they probably have all night, and then boo when it ends.

 

[Krugerr]

Im in the UK - so take my opinions with a pinch of salt, different veiws on it here.

But over here, the use of "Reasonable" force is allowed. She jumped on him, so a full forced shove would of been considered fine.

The law here allows you to match a force. If someone comes at you with a baseball bat, your allowed a similar weapon to defend yourself, If you are being attacked by multiple opponents, then you are allowed to defend yourself with something to equal the odds.

That means, a couple of people jump you, and pulling a gun out and shooting them is excessive, but grabbing a stick and busting busting them up a little to defend yourself is reasonable.

These rules here apply to the police as well. Except they are allowed to arrest you afterwards. She jumped on him, and she is a 17year old girl, the threat was low, a punch to the face is excessive, but still within "reasonable". as there was more than 1 person he was dealing with. Borderline!

 

[evilbarney]

its less paperwork for a cop to punch or shoot you then if they tazzer you in fact if they shoot you its no paperwork at all and 3 payed days hell if its there Monday thats a week off just remember that next time a cop tells you to do something

 

[ThunderStruck]

He should have broke out the taser and zapped the crap outta her. Full video shows her fighting with him for a min or two before he finally punched her in the mouth.

 

[flapjack34429]

Im in the UK - so take my opinions with a pinch of salt, different veiws on it here.

But over here, the use of "Reasonable" force is allowed. She jumped on him, so a full forced shove would of been considered fine.

The law here allows you to match a force. If someone comes at you with a baseball bat, your allowed a similar weapon to defend yourself, If you are being attacked by multiple opponents, then you are allowed to defend yourself with something to equal the odds.

That means, a couple of people jump you, and pulling a gun out and shooting them is excessive, but grabbing a stick and busting busting them up a little to defend yourself is reasonable.

These rules here apply to the police as well. Except they are allowed to arrest you afterwards. She jumped on him, and she is a 17year old girl, the threat was low, a punch to the face is excessive, but still within "reasonable". as there was more than 1 person he was dealing with. Borderline!

here we are allowed to one up the suspect, meaning if he has a baseball bat, i use my gun. We dont want even odds, we want the upper hand.

 

[PRWraith]

granted a punch to the face seems a little extreme but It doesn't look like it did any real damage.

Hell yea though I'm on the cops side here, it's very widely understood touching a cop in any violent manner regardless of the degree is a serious offence, a felony i believe.

 

[rob]

You had two struggling teens with a cop, I imagine it wouldn't have taken much for them to snag his weapon/tazer/spray/etc.

 

[Dealings]

regarding the UK comment

I dont think their officers are armed, here they cant allow anyone to get the upper hand on a police officer and potentially take the firearm and possibly use it

I dont think its ever happened out there but here its happened that during a traffic stop an officer goes to ask for license and registration and meets up w a gun to the face.....

how many videos of an arresting officer have we seen where the suspect turns on the officer wrestles him and the shoots him (seen by the mounted cam)

I think people in the UK perhaps dont grasp the potential danger that needs to be avoided decisevly by our police, its not a free for all either thats why people can file police brutality for excessive use of force.

If a mob charged a cop here I dont think hed be seen at fault if he used his fire arm, dont empty the clip in one persons face while they are on the ground or something crazy like that, but we have something here that says fear for ones life or protection of anothers life (acting in protection) and self defense.

Its plain and simple, dont physically aggressively engage an active duty officer of the law, he has no idea how dangerous you can be and that is not the time to give someone the benefit of the doubt.

 

[PRWraith]

I don't trust the common man as far as i can spit to be honest. In medic school they show a video of a cop doing a traffic stop only to get a shotgun to the stomache demonstrating how quickly routine things can turn deadly.

I'd rather use extreme force and stay alive.

 

[Nicedreamsbt]

i hate it when people say back when i was a kid. Or back when the army was hard. bla bla bla things have not gotten soft. The cop was in the right he was out numbered and had to get the situation in control. I would rather get punched in the face then tazzed or pepper sprayed. The teens thought they could get away with what ever they want because they are girls and they are black.

 

[tealeaf]

Even though arresting for jaywalking is utter bullshit, I am on the cop's side. That teen should not have shoved the police officer. Our police officers are trained to first protect themselves and then protect the public. It is WAY too easy to get a weapon in America and there was no way to know, on his end, if she had a knife or a gun or some other such thing. For her to lay a hand on an officer in the middle of an arrest...that is just sheer stupidity and people like her should have been bred out of the gene pool long ago...

And what was that I read on equal force? That is bullshit as well. A cop should use ANY amount of force, within common sense, to defend himself and apprehend a suspect. If two guys with baseball bats are headed for him, he is well within his rights to shoot them. Not just to tazer/pepper spray them. Those kinds of people need to be put down and they sure as shit won't be in our current justice system. Kind of like the Lockerbie Bomber situation. He murders how many people and is set free? Fuck, give me a bomb right now. I have a few people in mind that I would like to see gone, that may or may not include some politicians local and national. I'll just claim the Lockerbie defense. He should not, however, shoot someone for just jaywalking. Example not related to the cbs article.

It is just mind boggling how anti police some people are. Like that whole issue about the border patrol shooting these illegal immigrants linked to drug smuggling who were armed. The two agents got thrown in jail and Bush didn't even pardon them. Bulllshiiit. Why even have a police force or the border patrol if our cops get persecuted even when they are in the right? Miiind boggling.

 

[Krugerr]

So let me get this straight, u get jumped by 2 people beating your ass with a baseball bat. You then have to look around for something to pick up that makes the odds equal?

You would get your ass killed if you had to look around for an equalizer. That retarded.

Your reading into this what you want to read, in order to argue. You know full well that is not what I've written.

My point was that the higher the threat, the higher you can raise your own defence. Whether the threat increase by your attacker having a weapon, or just having multiple attackers. Should it come to it, and you have to defend yourself in court, you need to convince the Jury that the force you inflicted was sufficient and justified.

You cant expect the court to let you go, should you of gouged out a 15year olds eyes because he swore at you.
But it is perfectly acceptable if, for instance, you get jumped by 3 guys, who are out to do some serious damage, and you kill 1 of them in the process, and permanently disable anther from the neck down. As long as you can justify that the force inflicted was 'Enough' to save yourself. Not that you knocked them all unconcious, and then went to town on them.

In this case, a lone teenage girl without a weapon is no real threat. Punching her in the face in unacceptable. But there were multiple people involved in this, by UK law, this would provide him justification for striking her. Don't be a douche your whole life.

 

[Dealings]

a lone teenage girl without a weapon is no real threat

not a lone girl (guess the one resisting doesnt count? and we can tell no others were on site to potentially join?)

what determining factor would be acceptable for that officer to throw a punch? when potentially getting into a further wrestling encounter?, maybe only after they take him to the ground?, maybe if they reached accidentally or not any of his gear?, maybe one more person of similar size, to make that 3, perhaps more than that?


weapon status unverifiable at that point while engaged physically w another resisting (or did anyone catch something that led them to believe that there was absolutly no potential weapon possible?)

btw if she would have had a visible weapon while coming at the officer she could have been seriously injured or worse (and god i hope people dont find that as unacceptable as well)



to put into context of our reality Ill use my own real life experience of benefit of the doubt and why you cant give it.

I was in Chicago going into an apartment building, 2 youths (african american) were coming out (ended up being early teens i found out later on) it was cold winter night,they were well bundled (face), I passed them in the entrance, held the door open for them, they passed me, I went to ring the doorbell, then had a gun put to the back of my head and robbed. I turned my back to them at night and dismissed the potential of a threat, it was night time, this was Chicago, I should have known better.

I didnt get killed (lol no rez in real life) and who knows if they would have been as bold face to face even w a gun, there is a reason people assault from the back....... they take their own chance from the front (im no little guy and a former Marine) I dont scare easy. There is no riposte on a bullet but if u try to draw any weapon from too close a distance consider the possibility of things may not going your way.

I'm not afraid of bad neighborhoods , cautious maybe, i'm not afraid of potential threats, I cross to the other side of the sidewalk for no one, but except for that lapse of judgment I don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt. Don't stand too close to me if were all alone and I don't know u especially at night (arms length, 3 to 4 times that if you are behind me and if u are walking the same way ill let u pass me so i can see you).



They were caught, cause appareantly they were doing that often from that building, one was shot in the stomach and died from complications, i learned he was 14, by police officers sending an undercover officer that they tried to do the same thing to, it was my understanding that 1 kid drew out a weapon and pointed........

I live in a safer area now and don't need to be walking around late at night anywhere (married kids etc etc)

should you of gouged out a 5year olds eyes because he swore at you

seriously? is that any sort of viable attempt of usable, comparable, rational example?

Am I missing something or did anyone not see her as a larger human (female) and at what point did anyone hear or see her identifying herself as a 17 yr old, would it be easier to see that her actions were both unacceptable and met w justifiable response if she was 18, maybe 21 (or you pick the age you are comfortable with) and if so who was gonna pass that information to the officer right then and there?

 

[Krugerr]

In this case, a lone teenage girl without a weapon is no real threat. Punching her in the face in unacceptable. But there were multiple people involved in this, by UK law, this would provide him justification for striking her. Don't be a douche your whole life.

If your going to quote me, at least keep it in context.

Your right, if she'd had a weapon on show, it would of been different. You keep referring to her age, saying that it is irrelevent. I on the otherhand belive that her age is a defining point in this whole arguement. She's a teenage girl, stupid, silly, probably failed at school and has no common sense, but she isnt the sort to be walking around with a shotgun in her coat. She's a childish fool, but not a proper threat. We've all seen girls having fights in nightclubs etc, they scream and shout and wave their hands around.

Your story seems to have little relevence to this topic, although i apologise for seeming blunt, i cannot begin to imagine what it is like to be held up at gun point. In your case, you underestimated to youths with covered faces in a dodgy neighborhood.

My sight must be failing, for i cannot see why you are argueing with me on this topic, i agree, the officer used reasonable force. I thought that a full punch to the face was on the upper limit of acceptable, it still falls in what i believe to be reasonable. He was outnumbered, allowing him to escalate the force he was using.

The second quote you have from me is a typo, it was supposed to read 15year old. I shall edit that in a moment, it however still bares relevance. I was over simplifying the use of force, and what is reasonable, and what is not.

 

[JimJohnson]

She is a young adult, not a teen. To me a teen is 13-16. After that point you are a young adult. If you can be licensed to drive an automobile and possible kill yourself and or others. You no longer can pass the buck and say I didnt know better.

Her age would be a factor if she was 14 and clearly a kid. this is nto the case so age should not factor.

 

[Dealings]

but she isnt the sort to be walking around with a shotgun in her coat

not sure you are aware of what problems there have been regarding YOUNGER armed youths in this country (tragic but true)

there was no way to determine if she could be armed w anything (doesnt have tobe a shot gun could even be a knife)

the officer actually used neccessary restraint , acknowledging she wasnt armed at that point and responded w minimal response, even to the extent that I dont think a baton, spray or tazer were used, as it seemed he regained control of the situation pretty fast.

Btw its only discussion so what response would have been better, verbal reasoning didnt seem to be going his way, and she crossed an unfortunate line when she engaged him agressively and physically

As far as teenage girl comment goes, when people say that they probably have a different image than what was actually there, she was actually larger in mass than the officer , I think so was the other one, sadly combination of overweight nation and of course developed nation generate some pretty large teens

 

[postman23]

Hmm, arrested for jaywalking? Sounds like there might have been a little history between this teen and/or friends with the police for being arrested on such a small offense .... Regardless I believe he was more than justified to put up a show of force to someone challenging his authority with people around. Taser or pepper spray would produce just as much pain, albeit a more "acceptable" (general public opinion not mine) option of subduing.