Macro MQ2Retro Being Phased Out

[Fry]

There was some changes to macros in MQ2Main a week or two ago. Fixing MQ2Retro to work with it would of have been a mess. A decision was made that it will more than likely be time better spent fixing macros rather than MQ2Retro. We weren't too sure how many people used MQ2Retro macros.

The latest release has MQ2Retro removed.

So who is still using older macros, and what are they? Post them. Let the fun of trying to fix them begin.

 

[aspire2008]

Honestly, its better to fix mq2retro then to fix old macs.

I'm using Dev's macs still and we all know those will never get fixed, attempts have been made by the community to fix them but has that happened? NO.

So lets not lie to ourselves (myself included) in hope that someone will actually fix older macros for those of us who don't know how to write macros code. That alternative is far worse than trying to fix mq2mmoretro.

There are some other miscellaneous macros I still use that are way outdated, mostly for tradeskill parts farming etc.




Simply better to fix mq2mmoretro then to attempt to try to get anyone to fix macros in general.

 

[dewey2461]

This is a damn'ed if you do and damn'ed if you don't situation.

Maintaining backward compatibility via a plugin has got to be a PITA.

In the long run you want to get the macros fixed, or bite the bullet and learn new ones that are being supported.

I'd offer to assist but I'm not very motivated to code right now.

 

[Fry]

The decision comes down to htw. Hes the only one who really knows how much work it will be to update.

 

[chjary]

I was using it for Pete's old bot mac mostly

I find it easier to set up my bots to do what I want.

I can live without it ……. I just like it.

 

[Tapout]

I've honestly forgotten what macs I needed retro for. The main mac I have been using lately has been bot40. I've been working on progression lately so not using many macs. Just bot plugin. Only main mac I would use that might need it would have been the bot40 mac but I can't even remember if retro was needed for that.

 

[rujah]

If there was a guarantee that old mac/plugins were actually going to be updated or re-coded then I have absolutely no issues with scrapping it.

But to scrap and then nothing else is done... wouldn't be fun. People are paying for access not only for the site but actual maintenance of macs and plugins.

And IMHO if this actually happened, I'm pretty sure there would be more active subscribers. The only reason that I have seen a similar site being so active with subscribers is that whatever items they offer are continually being updated and improved. I know there is assistance when a question is asked but at the same time, there is a feeling that there is no caring and that sometimes posts take a while for a response or what not. (please don't take this as an attack. I'm repeating because some want to voice but feel they may be attacked saying so especially since they are active subscribers. Please don't shoot the messenger)

If I could code the way some of you can. I'd be going through the posts with reference to the macs and plugins available. I'm starting to learn but I think it will be a while before I can do anything that would make sense.

But to the main point, if macs and plugins were cleaned up and maintained, I have a feeling this place would be rockin' again.

 

[Chatwiththisname]

It's a rather tall order for the macro's to be updated. I'm unaware of any coder currently interested in taking on the project of bringing all macros up to date. Specifically because the ones that are wanted to be brought up to date are the ones that are massive.

If the macros were an easy fix, then certain I would go about fixing them. But between not understanding what was going on in some parts of the macro, and the sheer size of them in the first place, it's unlikely that they will be getting updated without some incentive to do so.


I tried my hand at it a while back, and while I've gotten a bit better at the coding of macros since then, it's still a tall order for some of the macros. IE: Dev's bots, Bot40, etc.


The route I personally think would be better is to get users to use MQ2Bot, let the users provide feedback so that issues can be handled. Simply saying "It's not working" isn't very helpful when it comes to plugins. Also, when there are random crashes, the only real way to find the culprit of a crash is either
A: know the code well enough to have some idea as to what might be causing it based on what the user was doing at the time.
B: have the source, attach a debugger to eqgame.exe, and cause the crash (or just keep the debugger on at all times in the event of a crash)

Plugins, unlike macros, don't tell you where your issue is because once compiled and transmitted to the user....there is no longer a source for it to know where the error occurred.

I've started in on plugins, but much like I used to be with macros, a lot of the stuff is above my head at this point.

I've released all my macros that I've coded myself to the forums based on the changes that required MQ2Retro in the first place in hopes of providing some utility back to the community. Hopefully I can continue that route and provide working copies of macros. Though an all class macro is likely not something I'm interested in tackling because:
A: It's a -shit- ton of work.
B: There just hasn't been much demand that I've seen for something like an all class macro seeing as they already exist.

For the sake of my continued contributions to the community, what macros are needed, that we don't currently have, that the community would like. For the most part I can slap together a macro in a day or two as long as it's not too complicated.

If you're looking for something a bit complicated and you don't mind footing the bill for it, chances are I'll take on a paid job as well, though I'm less inclined to do paid jobs as those come with the expectation of continued support and that I owe the community something, where-as I prefer to just code things and release them and address issues as I have time without the expectations that come with paid coding.


For those interested in learning some code specific to Macroquest2 macros. I've slowly started creating videos on how to do such a thing.

Conditions
YouTube

Window Manipulation
YouTube

My youtube Channel for mq2
YouTube

 

[zdozbou]

If there was a guarantee that old mac/plugins were actually going to be updated or re-coded then I have absolutely no issues with scrapping it.

But to scrap and then nothing else is done... wouldn't be fun. People are paying for access not only for the site but actual maintenance of macs and plugins.

And IMHO if this actually happened, I'm pretty sure there would be more active subscribers. The only reason that I have seen a similar site being so active with subscribers is that whatever items they offer are continually being updated and improved. I know there is assistance when a question is asked but at the same time, there is a feeling that there is no caring and that sometimes posts take a while for a response or what not. (please don't take this as an attack. I'm repeating because some want to voice but feel they may be attacked saying so especially since they are active subscribers. Please don't shoot the messenger)

If I could code the way some of you can. I'd be going through the posts with reference to the macs and plugins available. I'm starting to learn but I think it will be a while before I can do anything that would make sense.

But to the main point, if macs and plugins were cleaned up and maintained, I have a feeling this place would be rockin' again.

Can I just ask which macros released by MMOBugs are not being supported?

99% of the macros released here are from fellow community members. They receieve nothing of monetary value for the release of these macros. You cannot say that they have a responsibility to maintain these macros because you make a payment to someone else entirely.

 

[tiki]

with retro being phased out im sure bot and bot40 will stop working slowly but surely lol i was playing last night and everything seemed ok getting a error here and there but it still is working bard is broke tho

 

[rujah]

If there was a guarantee that old mac/plugins were actually going to be updated or re-coded then I have absolutely no issues with scrapping it.

But to scrap and then nothing else is done... wouldn't be fun. People are paying for access not only for the site but actual maintenance of macs and plugins.

And IMHO if this actually happened, I'm pretty sure there would be more active subscribers. The only reason that I have seen a similar site being so active with subscribers is that whatever items they offer are continually being updated and improved. I know there is assistance when a question is asked but at the same time, there is a feeling that there is no caring and that sometimes posts take a while for a response or what not. (please don't take this as an attack. I'm repeating because some want to voice but feel they may be attacked saying so especially since they are active subscribers. Please don't shoot the messenger)

If I could code the way some of you can. I'd be going through the posts with reference to the macs and plugins available. I'm starting to learn but I think it will be a while before I can do anything that would make sense.

But to the main point, if macs and plugins were cleaned up and maintained, I have a feeling this place would be rockin' again.

Can I just ask which macros released by MMOBugs are not being supported?

99% of the macros released here are from fellow community members. They receieve nothing of monetary value for the release of these macros. You cannot say that they have a responsibility to maintain these macros because you make a payment to someone else entirely.

No, because I don't know if someone released the macro just because or if they received any money for it. All I was stating was that I'm sure there's a way to see what and which macs/plugins people use even if it's done via a poll and then maybe overhauling those to get rid of any clutter, optimizing and or making run flawlessly. I'm not accusing nor am I stating it's fact, it was a general comment and idea offered because we were asked to give our thoughts and input on whether to scrap plugins or macs that are beyond fixing and that may or may not become compatible with the current release of mq2.

And just to be clear, I never stated or insisted that the people who maintain this site, that they are responsible to fix and or maintain macros they had no hand in. ANd if this is the case, I'm sorry but that was NOT my intention or goal with my comment.

If any staff member feels I was out of line, I am sincerely sorry. Staff who know me know I have nothing but great respect for them and know I wouldn't belittle them in any way.
(I'm also sorry if this doesn't make sense, I became a tad flustered)

 

[budlight]

There was some changes to macros in MQ2Main a week or two ago. Fixing MQ2Retro to work with it would of have been a mess. A decision was made that it will more than likely be time better spent fixing macros rather than MQ2Retro. We weren't too sure how many people used MQ2Retro macros.

The latest release has MQ2Retro removed.

So who is still using older macros, and what are they? Post them. Let the fun of trying to fix them begin.

Was still using Dev's sham, sk, war and bard macros, well until yesterday. So I would say I was using the retro.

 

[Chatwiththisname]

There was some changes to macros in MQ2Main a week or two ago. Fixing MQ2Retro to work with it would of have been a mess. A decision was made that it will more than likely be time better spent fixing macros rather than MQ2Retro. We weren't too sure how many people used MQ2Retro macros.

The latest release has MQ2Retro removed.

So who is still using older macros, and what are they? Post them. Let the fun of trying to fix them begin.

Was still using Dev's sham, sk, war and bard macros, well until yesterday. So I would say I was using the retro.

The ones I updated (tried to) or the ones released by dev?

 

[Chatwiththisname]

If there was a guarantee that old mac/plugins were actually going to be updated or re-coded then I have absolutely no issues with scrapping it.

But to scrap and then nothing else is done... wouldn't be fun. People are paying for access not only for the site but actual maintenance of macs and plugins.

And IMHO if this actually happened, I'm pretty sure there would be more active subscribers. The only reason that I have seen a similar site being so active with subscribers is that whatever items they offer are continually being updated and improved. I know there is assistance when a question is asked but at the same time, there is a feeling that there is no caring and that sometimes posts take a while for a response or what not. (please don't take this as an attack. I'm repeating because some want to voice but feel they may be attacked saying so especially since they are active subscribers. Please don't shoot the messenger)

If I could code the way some of you can. I'd be going through the posts with reference to the macs and plugins available. I'm starting to learn but I think it will be a while before I can do anything that would make sense.

But to the main point, if macs and plugins were cleaned up and maintained, I have a feeling this place would be rockin' again.

Can I just ask which macros released by MMOBugs are not being supported?

99% of the macros released here are from fellow community members. They receieve nothing of monetary value for the release of these macros. You cannot say that they have a responsibility to maintain these macros because you make a payment to someone else entirely.

I agree. Macro's are work of the community. It's uncommon here for coders to be paid for maintenance of their code. If someone is releasing code it's because they want to, not because they are being paid to do so.

 

[Fry]

Writing MQ2Retro in the first place was a ton of work. Htw wouldn't be giving up on it if it was an easy to resolve problem. The only issue losing MQ2Retro is going to cause is problems with old class assist/combat macros. Other macros are normally simple to fix as they are nowhere near as complicated.

My priority for MMOBugs is to make sure MQ2Bot and Bot40.mac are functioning well to give people two options for botting. One via plugin, other via macro. I'd much prefer attention be directed towards improving these.

Other macros, such as Devestators old class macros I haven't looked at in a long time. Chatswiththisname mention, hes actually worked on fixes for devestators old macros, we need to know error problems with these fixes. This needs to be dug into better with what the problems are. I am happy to spend some time trying to make sure older macros are functional with the new macro changes from last year. Please post with the code and errors, and we'll do our best to resolve them.

In the end focus needs to be on one botting macro (Bot40.mac looks like the winner) or we'll just end up with a bunch of half ass assist/combat macros far from perfect.

Other than devestators class macros (And old version of bot.mac), are there other macros are people using with MQ2Retro that are causing problems? Please let us know so we can try and resolve them.

 

[dewey2461]

Probably should create a form to fill out for the macro bug report.

You will want a way to ensure that:

A: Have exactly the same code.
B: Know exactly how to startup and run the macro.
C: Know exactly what the problem/error is.
D: Can replicate the problem.

When I really start diving into my own MQ code I use OBS Studio to record the session as a video. I record the puller and tank ( or healer ) at high resolution / low frame rate ( 1280x1024 / 4 fps ) This gives me enough detail to be able to read the MQ debug window and see what the characters are doing.

I don't expect folks to go to this level because working with large video files is a PITA and they show all your character info so the are incriminating evidence

The point I'm trying to make is this. Most non-coders just see the end result with out realizing how much effort it takes. If you are going to ask someone to trouble shoot the macro you use, make the effort to provide enough detail for them to do it.

( sorry to hijack the thread Fry )

 

[Chatwiththisname]

Probably should create a form to fill out for the macro bug report.

You will want a way to ensure that:

A: Have exactly the same code.
B: Know exactly how to startup and run the macro.
C: Know exactly what the problem/error is.
D: Can replicate the problem.

When I really start diving into my own MQ code I use OBS Studio to record the session as a video. I record the puller and tank ( or healer ) at high resolution / low frame rate ( 1280x1024 / 4 fps ) This gives me enough detail to be able to read the MQ debug window and see what the characters are doing.

I don't expect folks to go to this level because working with large video files is a PITA and they show all your character info so the are incriminating evidence

The point I'm trying to make is this. Most non-coders just see the end result with out realizing how much effort it takes. If you are going to ask someone to trouble shoot the macro you use, make the effort to provide enough detail for them to do it.

( sorry to hijack the thread Fry )

If you are going to make videos and are concerned about your character's names being visible I recommend using the

/caption anon on

command. I've been trying to overhaul the anon feature so that it is more reliable. Note that there is a couple of spots that are still not hidden.
the name of the master loot in the built in advloot window, and echo's or writechatf (plugin version of echo) that are sent to the MQ2Chatwnd.

Those changes I've made were updated with live version of macroquest2 and are now part of core. So while it's not 100%, it has been improved.

 

[aspire2008]

Writing MQ2Retro in the first place was a ton of work. Htw wouldn't be giving up on it if it was an easy to resolve problem. The only issue losing MQ2Retro is going to cause is problems with old class assist/combat macros. Other macros are normally simple to fix as they are nowhere near as complicated.

My priority for MMOBugs is to make sure MQ2Bot and Bot40.mac are functioning well to give people two options for botting. One via plugin, other via macro. I'd much prefer attention be directed towards improving these.

Other macros, such as Devestators old class macros I haven't looked at in a long time. Chatswiththisname mention, hes actually worked on fixes for devestators old macros, we need to know error problems with these fixes. This needs to be dug into better with what the problems are. I am happy to spend some time trying to make sure older macros are functional with the new macro changes from last year. Please post with the code and errors, and we'll do our best to resolve them.

In the end focus needs to be on one botting macro (Bot40.mac looks like the winner) or we'll just end up with a bunch of half ass assist/combat macros far from perfect.

Other than devestators class macros (And old version of bot.mac), are there other macros are people using with MQ2Retro that are causing problems? Please let us know so we can try and resolve them.

With Dev's macros I reported like at least 10 if not 20+ undefined variables in that thread, they never got looked into, and Im sure there are at least a 100+ more that need to get looked at but I gave up on reporting them after awhile since nothing was being done about them. And also, its hard to report the new ones that come up if the macro gets stuck at the undefined variable it finds. Can't find the new ones after that one is fixed or looked into.


Also, some of the work that Chatswiththisname did, completely change the macro. I.E. the pulling routines, can't seem to get the custom pull paths to work anymore, and it defaults to mq2nav, so it was a loss of functionality in a sense.


And the custom pull path routines using the pathrecord macro was the reason I was still using them, as mq2nav doesn't work well in some zones or certain areas.


And I'm not blaming anyone to try and help fix them, I greatly appreciate the work that Chatwiththisname tried to do on them, but the functionality completely changed, as well as the INI file settings that were hidden are all turned on so its a lot to digest for the user now when looking at the INI file


Its just a huge task for anyone trying to fix them though. Mq2retro circumvented that task.


I know it would be difficult, but seems fixing mq2mmoretro would require less time than than fixing old macros, fixing old macros is a huge timely cost.

 

[htw]

I spent a lot of time on this initially. The problem is that as time goes on, core changes separate the ease of maintaining more and more, and is not very manageable. Things start to get so spaghetti that legit fixes and improvements from eqmule & the mq2 devs to the core macro engine get missed or too far changed to add in and maintain. These changes/fixes from core are certainly to be desired, in some cases changes/fixes that would have been great to have years ago, and non-retro users should expect those to happen here.


What I can commit to is fixing the only real thing that broke back then - the undeclared variable issue. I can't commit to fixing every little functionality issue a macro has, but of course, if I were to see it while I'm working on the macro, I would do so.


I am going to have our own macro repo, which can be open to all the benefits of one, including tracking revisions, comments, reports, etc. Any macro anyone wants in there we'll put. The goal from my end will be to get it back to function without retro, but NOT to fix issues that existed already previously, or adding features, etc.



aspire: If you want to email to htwmmo@gmail.com a zip of all your dev macs/includes/etc. that were working, I can commit to getting them corrected for this.


As far as bot40/bot, I will want to start with the latest version that was working before the var changes, and start from there. That way any changes to how the macro works that may have broken anything can be dealt with later, but we get back to a good starting point for such changes.


At a minimum, I would begin with:
bot40
bot
dev's
tradeskills


Feel free to request any update to other broken macs (provide your last working version please).


htw

 

[Chatwiththisname]

I spent a lot of time on this initially. The problem is that as time goes on, core changes separate the ease of maintaining more and more, and is not very manageable. Things start to get so spaghetti that legit fixes and improvements from eqmule & the mq2 devs to the core macro engine get missed or too far changed to add in and maintain. These changes/fixes from core are certainly to be desired, in some cases changes/fixes that would have been great to have years ago, and non-retro users should expect those to happen here.


What I can commit to is fixing the only real thing that broke back then - the undeclared variable issue. I can't commit to fixing every little functionality issue a macro has, but of course, if I were to see it while I'm working on the macro, I would do so.


I am going to have our own macro repo, which can be open to all the benefits of one, including tracking revisions, comments, reports, etc. Any macro anyone wants in there we'll put. The goal from my end will be to get it back to function without retro, but NOT to fix issues that existed already previously, or adding features, etc.



aspire: If you want to email to htwmmo@gmail.com a zip of all your dev macs/includes/etc. that were working, I can commit to getting them corrected for this.


As far as bot40/bot, I will want to start with the latest version that was working before the var changes, and start from there. That way any changes to how the macro works that may have broken anything can be dealt with later, but we get back to a good starting point for such changes.


At a minimum, I would begin with:
bot40
bot
dev's
tradeskills


Feel free to request any update to other broken macs (provide your last working version please).


htw

Getting the macro's up to date would be the more permanent fix for the situation and the time spent to get the properly up to date would be the ideal way to go. My copies of dev's bots were altered as mentioned in an attempt to make things work correctly. But I got them from Dev's GitHub. His GitHub can be found at GitHub - devestator/devbots: All Everquest / MQ2 class bots and other macros written by devestator

Personally like the idea of seeing a repository or at least a quick reference area to access all the macros available on MMOBugs instead of digging through the forums. Even if it's a master thread with links to all the macros that have been posted to mmobugs by creators. This would enable users to find macros a lot easier and reduce the amount of posts where someone's like "Where dis macro at that does this thing".


So be it a git link, or a link to the thread they can be referenced via a single link, and any changes made could be documented on the git regardless of who makes the changes.