Late 2020 PC building for multiboxing

icyhot

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Hey guys, I just wanted to start this thread to help myself and others whom might find it useful.

I will be upgrading my PC by end of year (approximately) and I want to be more informed when I do so.

My end goals:
1) Play 40+ toons
2) Ability to play other games at 2k resolution
3) Run some simulations for work from time to time

Currently have:
1) 2 x 27" 2k 144hz monitors
2) ISBoxer for multiple toons
3) AMD Thread Ripper 2950X
4) 64gb ram, quad channel setup
5) 1080ti
6) 1TB NVME SSD
7) AsRock x399 taichi motherboard

Questions:
1) How much VRAM is needed for 40+ toons? I currently have been using a 1080ti (11GB VRAM on it) and some lag happens around 26+ toons
2) What game settings are optimal for boxing large amounts?
3) Is CPU core count or frequency more desirable?

Any detailed information or links to read about this stuff would be helpful and much
 
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think the guy u want to get a hold of is KingArthur hes currently got a set up that handles that ammount of toons
so 40 toons times 40 expansions 40 subs
hardware invested
what does your initial set up cost look like
and what are you planning to have as an upkeep fee
not sure if people that box across diff machines price out their energy cost
its all interesting, wish u luck sir
 
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My cost target is around 2.2k-ish. I will be reusing monitors, case, psu (850w plat), peripherals, and the nvme ssd.

So basically need CPU, mobo, graphics card, and RAM.

I know I'm likely going to shoot for AMD's upcoming cpu, like the 4950x or whatever the 16 core 32 thread will be named. Ram I will likely keep at 64 gb too. My main concern is the gpu and how much VRAM is really necessary. Nvidia's new 3080 is at 10gb and my older 1080tinis at 11gb, would this be bad for running this large amount of toons? Can settings offset that? Or maybe AMDs launch of graphics cards on October 28th will give us 3080-like performance and more VRAM too, say around 16gb. Then maybe it will work best for me. However being informed about how the game uses certain resources would be extremely useful I think regardless of what is to come in these near or far future releases.

Thanks again in advance!
 
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About 6 months ago I purchased an AMD 9750x 16 core/32 thread CPU. 64 GB ram. NVidia GeForce
2070.

My baseline setup 1280x1024 windowed mode on a 1920x1280 resolution monitor where all clients are shown in the same spot. I had most of the models turned on. I was using MQ2FPS to render 1 frame in 30.

Out of the box I could run about 16-20 characters before I started noticing a significant performance drop. Win10 task manager shows the GPU load was hitting 90%+

EQWire is functionally the same as MQ2FPS except its slightly more efficient and has a mode to disable rendering the EQ UI ( pressing F10 - Try it! ) The side effect is the game client suddenly has no frame limiting and CPU usage spikes to 100% while the EQ FPS jumps 100+. While this is faster it also made my mouse very laggy.

I ended modifying my version of MQ2FPS to Press F10 - disabling the EQ chat when clients are in the background, while also limiting the EQ game client so it does consume all the CPU power. The results of that let me load an extra ~10 clients.

Once I was happy with that modification I then started looking at some of ways to modify the EQ client. Specifically the actor clip plane and the far clip plane. I again modified my MQ2FPS to modify these in the background which helped a couple FPS.

Another small performance was using stick figures.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Over the XP weekend I was doing some PL'ing and tried pushing the setup into loading 40 characters and while I could load it the system was definitely feeling sluggish. Loading the last few characters were painfully slow. Once all characters were in zone it was usable but not pleasant. Dropping back to 37-38 did the trick.

With that many loaded my GPU load from task manager showed 98%+, CPU load was ~60-75 ( I don't remember exactly )

I suspect that with a more aggressive eqClient.ini and using EqWire which is slightly more efficient that my custom MQ2FPS it would be possible to push the system further.

My advice to you would be to keep your system AND put together the new dream machine. Setup the system monitors side by side and use input director to control both from the same keyboard and mouse, at which point you should be able to box 60+ with no lag.
 
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Another small performance was using stick figures.
what were u using to use stickfigures, thought that wasnt an option again

running 60+ is crazy :), unless u are farming or PLing all over the place, otherwise 54 is max raid force these days
 
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This is how I would answer your questions:
1) You should have no issue with vram on a 1080Ti with 11GB. I can run 80 on a 1070 with 8GB. Something else is bottlenecking you, even if it's showing up as a graphics card bottleneck. The EQ client is OOOOOOOLD, from a time when video cards had 4mb or whatever bullshit. It does not use vram. If it IS using a bunch of vram, that's some sort of graphical setting your geforce driver is auto-optimizing that you just have to find and disable. There was some....really stupid setting that used crazy amounts of resources if set incorrectly, like set the sky to simple instead of off maybe? Looking at my client now, I don't have everything turned down to minimum, but I do have some things off. There's a list of 10 check boxes, everything between pixel shaders and bloom lighting is turned off. And max FPS is set to 60 (I vaguely recall it being important that this is set to something, maybe doesn't matter much what it is set to). There's some threads out there on stuff you can fiddle with, it isn't always as simple as setting it to the lowest possible, that sometimes will push the resource useage to the vram instead of RAM, if that makes sense.

2) Best of luck, my eyes aren't good enough for fancy monitors to matter anymore.

3) I have no regrets going for more cores over speed. In theory a faster processor clears the lanes but twice the lanes definitely works fine for multiboxing. Windows 10 especially is a total hoss at making good use of all the cores for EQ. Newer games/single instances you want speed over everything else, so if are playing lots of different games maybe that's important. Your mobo looks awesome, and reading the memory compatibility page it looks like it supports some 128GB options (be careful with batches tho, hard/expensive to find 128GB sets so it's a squeeze your nuts and pray ordered sets work together. I sorted through about ten thousand packages of 2x16 sticks to find four in a row...You might find a few more sticks of the 4x16 (hopefully not 8x8) set you already have, stick 'em in and maybe they'll work.
Your processor is also pretty great on paper. I...seriously doubt it's the bottleneck in your current build. If you can afford it though it does look like there's some drop in options with more cores, but comparing our processors, yours is just a little bit slower than mine, you ought to be able to hit 40 toons. You might could benefit from more RAM, but I think if you just configure eqwire or mq2fps you should be fine. It shouldn't just be possible it should feel smooth.

Specifics on my experience below:


I box 54 on one PC. I cannot do this without eqwire plugin. I have eqwire set to render one frame every ten minutes or so for non-active instances. With practice and fluency you really don't need to "see" out of any other windows and at 54 toons your monitors would have to be pretty large to make out much detail anyway, I do have a second monitor that has all the windows flickering, but I use it more for a "yup, every toon made it across that zoneline" than any other reason. See other's post on maybe running two machines, especially if you're savvy enough to set up remote start/launch etc from the primary machine. I know someone who ran a couple of six box crews through older laptops monitored by his BCS running on an always on raspberry pi. For a just a couple hundred bucks he was able to add basically eighteen boxes, but everything was set up to autopatch/launch/updates to client/pc/3rdparty programs. I don't have the skill for that.

My system info:
System Model X299 UD4 Pro
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-7920X CPU @ 2.90GHz, 2904 Mhz, 12 Core(s), 24 Logical Processor(s)
BaseBoard Manufacturer Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
Platform Role Desktop
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 128 GB
Adapter Description NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070

The graphics card doesn't max out until I load closer to eighty instances.
On my old build, 64GB of RAM would only get me to around 42 characters, and 36 was the max for smooth running, which is a major reason I switched to the different socket to open up a larger RAM reservoir. I find EQ works best when it has around 700mb of RAM per instance, but you also need some cushion for OS and other things. You *can* force down some of the RAM use, I've made it work at 250mb per instance, but it will still end up being a bottleneck for you trying to go to 40 regardless of other system parameters, in my experience. And it felt like the more I tried to stop the client from using RAM, the more stress it put on the cpu/vcard.

The 7920X was really cool because it upped everything to 44 threads (plus it was twice the cores of my previous setup), with 54 characters and netflix running I generally have 30GB of RAM leftover. Without eqwire I max out at 36 characters before performance slows enough to notice.

But the biggest quality of life improvement, I'm saying, the secret to shout from the rooftops: Get an NVME M.2 SSD. Sweet merciful christ. I can't necessarily run more toons, but I bet it saves me an hour a day. 54 characters zone, not instantly, but it FEELS instantly compared to how it used to be. I used to just go take a break, stretch, use the bathroom, get a snack, every time I zoned. Now? I'm pretty sure it's server-lag is the only reason it isn't instant. You've already got an NVME so you're all set there.

My next build (parts are on the way) will upgrade to a 10980XE for more cores and threads, bigger cache, and two of the newest NVME's which are listed as twice as fast, I'm going to try them in a RAID configuration and see if I can get 4x the old speed.

I'm keeping the old board, which limits me to 128GB of RAM still, as I don't think the RAM is bottlenecking me anymore and 256 GB of RAM won't let me stop using eqwire, maybe in 2025...

And I'm not going for faster RAM because I haven't noticed that making a difference either (EQ uses just as much DDR4 3000 RAM per instance as it used DDR3 1200 RAM or whatever my old sticks were seems like).

If I can ever FIND an RTX card in stock anywhere I'll see how they do. I wasn't thinking EQ made enough use of the graphics card back when I was seeing the 20 series cards, and everything is completely sold out now that the 30 series launched. The 1070 is still cranking away, I'm very satisfied with that purchase though I was nervous at the time it might not be enough. Couldn't find any 1080Ti's in stock at the time so just went for it. Again, I can't imagine your 1080Ti is really maxxing out, maybe if you were playing with all settings turned to max on each account without eqwire or mq2fps, even then, I'd expect something else was getting full up and causing the graphics card to have to work too hard.

I know this is late but just thought I'd share my journey. I don't even really like playing EQ that much anymore, but I DO get a lot of satisfaction getting a single PC up to running a whole raid. Something about a childhood spent barely getting a single instance of the game to run at all. It's also exceedingly satisfying pointing 40 melee characters at something and watching it explode.
 
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Thank you for all of the replies. I have the old rig still (2950x and 1080ti) and I have a new one as well now, a 5900x and a 3080 with 32GB RAM. I currently have 30 toons in (on new machine) with CPU bouncing between 35 and 40% usage, RAM sitting steady at 44% usage, and the GPU maxed out at around 97-99% usage at any given time. When I look at the task manager performance tab, it looks as if the 3D portion of the GPU is maxed, the ram is sitting around 25% of the 10GB on the 3080. This is all on an emulated server, mind you.

I noticed that there are 2 MQ builds for the emulated servers that use ROF2, one being labeled as "old" and one "new". I have written a macro that is currently using some plugins from the "old" one that are not in the "new" one, which is unfortunate because I see that I could be using the MQ2EQWire plugin in the new one if I can get my macro moved over to using the new code base and its plugins. That is something I will try to work on in the coming week. I did test out EQWire, and it seems pretty awesome for boxing a ton of toons.

I am also playing around with the client ini's to try and maximize them without having to use the Stick Figures (but I do have a copy I can copy/paste in with that if it comes to it).

I know we are dealing with a nearly ancient game at this point, but I still love to play it, so thanks again for all that have suggested things!
 
How did you score the computer/parts? Everyone is out of stock. Use one of the notification websites?
 
I see that I could be using the MQ2EQWire plugin in the new one if I can get my macro moved over to using the new code base and its plugins. That is something I will try to work on in the coming week. I did test out EQWire, and it seems pretty awesome for boxing a ton of toons.

You can get 90-95% of the performance of EQWire just using MQ2FPS and a couple lines of macro code.

Code:
        /if (${EverQuest.Foreground} && ${EverQuest.ScreenMode} == 3) /keypress F10
        /if (!${EverQuest.Foreground} && ${EverQuest.ScreenMode} == 2) /keypress F10

One of the big things eqWire does to decrease load is to disable drawing the user interface. When you press F10 you tell EQ to just render the scene. This code toggles that setting.
 
Thank you for all of the replies. I have the old rig still (2950x and 1080ti) and I have a new one as well now, a 5900x and a 3080 with 32GB RAM. I currently have 30 toons in (on new machine) with CPU bouncing between 35 and 40% usage, RAM sitting steady at 44% usage, and the GPU maxed out at around 97-99% usage at any given time. When I look at the task manager performance tab, it looks as if the 3D portion of the GPU is maxed, the ram is sitting around 25% of the 10GB on the 3080. This is all on an emulated server, mind you.

I noticed that there are 2 MQ builds for the emulated servers that use ROF2, one being labeled as "old" and one "new". I have written a macro that is currently using some plugins from the "old" one that are not in the "new" one, which is unfortunate because I see that I could be using the MQ2EQWire plugin in the new one if I can get my macro moved over to using the new code base and its plugins. That is something I will try to work on in the coming week. I did test out EQWire, and it seems pretty awesome for boxing a ton of toons.

I am also playing around with the client ini's to try and maximize them without having to use the Stick Figures (but I do have a copy I can copy/paste in with that if it comes to it).

I know we are dealing with a nearly ancient game at this point, but I still love to play it, so thanks again for all that have suggested things!
Which plugins? If I can add them to rof2a, I'd be glad to.
 
How did you score the computer/parts? Everyone is out of stock. Use one of the notification websites?

I have a Micro Center not too far away from me, about 30 min. So I literally took days off work and waited in line at 430am until they open at 9am. I did this 7 times to get the 3080. I got the 5900x the first day somehow, everyone was getting the 5600x it seemed. I was told the deliveries can come on any day of the week and the numbers of each of the items varies of course and they never know ahead of time what they are getting due to the shortages.

One plugin i was using was MMOTLO for the XTargets, is there another way to get the count of mobs on aggro, using a plugin from the "New" ROF2 build? If not, I will play around with the MQ2FPS plugin and the lines you have above.
 
Which plugins? If I can add them to rof2a, I'd be glad to.

The ones that I used from the "old" build that are missing in the "new" one are:
1) MQ2MMOTLO
2) MQ2Loops

Thanks htw!
 
All the stuff in MQ2MMOTLO is included without a plugin now (it's added by MQ2MMOBugs).
For MQ2Loops, I believe it got dropped iirc, since there is /while in core now. I can still take a look at it though, and will let you know.

htw
 
All the stuff in MQ2MMOTLO is included without a plugin now (it's added by MQ2MMOBugs).
For MQ2Loops, I believe it got dropped iirc, since there is /while in core now. I can still take a look at it though, and will let you know.

htw

Ok I will try to run off of the new base again too, it has been some months at the least since i last tried it. I will let you know as soon as I can if it works, as to not waste any of your time!
 
I get "Failed to parse /while command. Could not find command to execute.

How it is used where erroring out
/while (${num}>10)
... few lines of stuff here
/endwhile

it spits back usage: /while (<conditions>) <command>
Is there no longer and /endwhile portion of the while command then for using multiple lines within the while?
 
The ${XTarget.Current} command is working for sure, so the MMOTLO is not needed for certain now.
 
I get "Failed to parse /while command. Could not find command to execute.

How it is used where erroring out
/while (${num}>10)
... few lines of stuff here
/endwhile

it spits back usage: /while (<conditions>) <command>
Is there no longer and /endwhile portion of the while command then for using multiple lines within the while?

No /endwhile

Here is wiki link that shows example of usage: Flow Control - MacroQuest Wiki (macroquest2.com)